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    Dan Shapiro: “Negotiating the Nonnegotiable” | Talks at Google

    August 19, 2019


    MALE SPEAKER:
    Welcome, Google world. My name is [? Sunny Sani, ?]
    and I’m here to introduce Daniel Shapiro. Daniel Shapiro is one of
    the world’s leading experts in negotiation and
    conflict resolution and is founder and director
    of the world renowned Harvard International
    Negotiation Program. He has appeared on dozens of
    radio and television shows and has contributed to
    the “New York Times,” “O, the Oprah Magazine,” and
    other popular publications. He is the recipient
    of numerous awards, including the American
    Psychological Association’s Early Career Award
    and the Cloke-Millen Peacemaker of the Year award. The World Economic Forum named
    him a Young Global Leader. And he is here today to
    talk about the tenets of his new book, “Negotiating
    the Nonnegotiable.” And without further
    ado, Daniel Shapiro. DANIEL SHAPIRO: Thank you. Thank you, [? Sunny. ?]
    So thank you. It is great to be here
    with all of you today. So let me start with my
    association with Google. So I have a few, but let
    me tell you the one that’s most prominent in my mind. It was probably close
    to 10 years back. I was in those
    mountains of Switzerland at Davos at the World Economic
    Forum’s annual meeting. And the hippest, the coolest
    event of the whole time there, for their annual summit in
    January, was the Google party. And guess who did not get an
    invitation to the Google party? Loser here. So some of my friends,
    who were a little bit more in the circle, said,
    we’ll sneak you in. And so somehow I get
    shuffled in a backdoor into the Google party. I’m there talking
    with Charlie Rose and a couple of other people. And we start getting
    into, so what do you do? And I knew Charlie Rose. I turned to the
    person beside me. So what do you do? And this person says,
    I work at Google. I said, oh, really? What do you do at Google? And he says, I founded it. It was Larry Page. Yeah. So I went, oh. So I’m sneaking into your party. He goes, yeah, pretty much. And anyway, the rest of
    our time there at Davos, literally, it was the
    most awkward situation. Somehow, I found myself
    sitting directly next to him again and again. And again, I could feel
    him going, who is this guy? But I enjoyed
    meeting your founder. I’m sure he does not
    remember me at all, although I very much member him. So let me start by asking
    all of you a question. And you know what? There are some of you over here. I’m going to be very annoying. Would you mind just
    coming over this way, just so we are one happy
    family here at Google. So just a show of
    hands– how many of you in the past six
    months have– feel free. Feel free just to
    walk in front of me. Yeah. How many of you in
    the past six months have experienced an
    emotionally-charged conflict? Raise your hands. Yes? Yes? OK. Your hand– OK. Good. OK. So you are human beings. Good. Let me ask you
    one more question, which will seem like
    a total non sequitur, but I believe it is not. Anybody here know
    what a poplar tree is? A poplar tree? Yeah. So what’s a poplar tree, sir? AUDIENCE: A tree that has
    fairly roundish flowers on it. DANIEL SHAPIRO: OK, so a tree
    with fairly roundish flowers on it. I’ll have to trust
    you on that one. It’s a deciduous tree. Few of us in this
    room would have much of any interest in what
    is a poplar tree if it weren’t for the fact that there
    was a single poplar tree that sat right at that
    border between North and South Korea. And each year, this little
    poplar tree would blossom, and it would grow. And as it would grow, it would
    block the South Koreans’ view of the Bridge of No Return, the
    conduit between North and South Korea. So each year, out would
    march a small team of South Korean
    soldiers, and they would go to trim this tree. It was a security concern,
    and this was fine. Year after year after year,
    until August 6th, 1976, when the usual team of South
    Korean soldiers, they go out. They’re trimming the tree
    for about 10 minutes. Along comes a lieutenant
    from the North Korean side with a much larger team
    of North Korean soldiers. The lieutenant from
    the North walks up the lieutenant from the South. You try and trim this
    tree, we’re going to shoot! And sorry. We’re going to shoot! And they literally chase
    away the South Korean team. But this is a security concern. And it does not stop
    the South Koreans from trying to trim this tree. They come back about
    two weeks later, now with a much larger team
    of South Korean soldiers, US soldiers, and UN
    officials, and all there for the single
    purpose of what? Trying to trim this
    damn tree, you know? And they start trimming once
    again for about 10 minutes. Along comes that
    lieutenant from the North, this time with a
    much, much larger team of North Korean soldiers. You try and trim this tree,
    we are going to shoot. This did not stop
    the South Koreans from trying to trim this tree. And for those of you who might
    remember what happened next, this turned into a
    bloody, bloody mess. There were a number
    of South Koreans who were injured in the
    circumstance, two US Soldiers not just shot–
    decapitated, caught on camera, broadcast around the world. I was presenting this
    case fairly recently in my home
    institution in Boston. And after I was
    presenting the case to some international military
    leaders, some lawyers, business people, and so on, I was
    walking out of the room. And this one gentleman
    comes chasing after me, face as red as you can imagine. Shapiro! That’s me. Shapiro, I don’t
    think you understand! I don’t think you
    understand, he says. I was there. I was at West Point,
    the US military college, at that point in time. He says, I knew those boys. I knew their families. He said, we were not
    just feeling grief at the loss of our soldiers. He says, we were feeling
    utter, utter humiliation at the way our boys died. And surprise, surprise,
    this situation then reaches the highest
    of the high in the United States, the White House, where
    then-President Ford was faced with a very difficult decision. What do you do? What do you do? And he turns to
    his lead advisor. And his lead advisor
    basically says, well, you know what I think
    we should do, Mr. President? I think we should bomb
    the North Koreans. And the president
    thinks about it and decides that a more
    appropriate strategy would be to simply try
    to cut down this tree. So now back to the scene. On August 21st, 1976,
    some two weeks later, comes 813 human power, manpower
    as they sometimes call it, F-4 fighters, F-5 fighters. They had a 64-man armed
    platoon trained in taekwondo. They had three B-52 bombers
    circling around overhead with the single purpose of what? Trying to cut down this tree. And do they do it? Yes. How long does it take? About one hour. Was there further incident? No. But as I was learning about
    this story, what struck me most is that this was literally
    almost World War III. Literally almost World War III. And over what? Over a tree? And obviously, it’s over much,
    much more than just a tree. But it begs two
    fundamental questions that connect all of us together,
    two basic questions that we’re going to focus on today. One, why– there we go. One, why do we get stuck in
    emotionally-charged conflicts? And two, how do we get out? And, I mean, if you
    look at the situation, if this were the United
    States and Canada fighting over a tree,
    five minutes, it’s done. There’s something
    strange that happens when we get into
    emotionally-charged conflicts, whether at work or
    in the home life or in the international realm. So with that, the more
    specific purpose for today is twofold– well,
    let me go back one. Twofold– it’s to present a
    framework based upon research that I’ve been conducting
    over the past 20 years. Just two modest goals for today
    connected to my new book– one, how do you guard against
    the most fundamental mindset that traps us in conflict? What is that mindset? How do you guard against it? And second big
    purpose of today– there tend to be these
    emotional forces that pull us toward adversarial
    relations, even when it doesn’t make sense. What are those forces? And how might you try
    to deal with them? We’re not going to go
    into the full depth. The book is there. But for sure, I’m going to give
    you some of the basic ideas so you have a good
    sense of what they are. So before jumping into our talk
    formally for the day, quickly, where do these ideas come from? The ideas I’ll be
    talking about with you, they come from two
    different places. One, from laboratory research
    that myself and colleagues have done, fieldwork,
    global field work around conflict resolution. My own work has
    been with, really, a vast variety of
    different groups, everybody from civil
    society organizations, grassroots organizations,
    families in crisis, to working with heads of state
    and CEOs of major businesses. And by the way,
    I can promise you but one thing– by
    the end of our time together, although I’ve had
    these various different kinds of experiences, my
    greatest learning has come from negotiating with
    three of the hardest bargainers that the world has ever seen. And you will have to
    believe me on this. It is these guys right here. And these are my children. Noah’s the oldest, Zachary
    second, Liam is the third. And you will have
    to trust me– day in and day out, they test
    every one of these skills. I truly believe that most things
    are negotiable except maybe with my children. So anyway, my purpose for
    showing you that slide, though, is to say that, yes, what we
    will be talking about today is relevant in the corporate
    context, in the business world. It’s just as relevant
    whether you’re trying to negotiate with
    mom or dad, brother, sister, whoever it might be at home,
    as well– romantic partner. So with that, let’s
    jump into the problem. The problem is
    this– how should you resolve an
    emotionally-charged conflict? Now, these conflicts
    impose a tremendous cost on any organization. Most people don’t even recognize
    the extent of the costs that conflict brings
    to your organization. When you look at the financial
    spreadsheets for most organizations, you
    see, often, one line which deals with conflict–
    legal fees, litigation. And yet at the same
    time, there are all of these hidden costs of
    poorly dealing with conflict. You have all of the
    poor decision-making– what’s your first name? AUDIENCE: Elad. DANIEL SHAPIRO:
    I don’t like you. What is it? AUDIENCE: Elad. DANIEL SHAPIRO: Elad? OK. I don’t like you. OK. So– no, I’m just kidding. But if Elad and I
    are working together, and I don’t like Elad,
    and he doesn’t like me for not liking him, all of a
    sudden, our decision-making– and by the way, you seem
    like a nice enough guy. But all of a sudden,
    our decision-making starts to go way down. I don’t consult you. I’m not sharing
    information with you. You’re not loyal
    to me, and so on. You have the big problem
    that many organizations, even masterful organizations
    like Google, face. You start to lose
    an employee or two. A star player goes to
    one of the competition. And you go, ah
    what just happened? Conflict. Conflict If you don’t deal
    with it well, a huge cost. You have all of the elements of
    a toxic corporate environment. And I know Google’s
    a nice place. I got a sense of it
    today over lunch. There’s a positive feeling,
    a positive vibe here. At the same time, every
    organization has conflict. If you don’t deal with it well,
    it is tremendously costly. So why don’t we
    deal with it well? In its simplest form, my
    sense is we approach conflict typically like this picture. We think, OK. I am right here right now. Let me rationally try and deal
    with this problem with Elad that I have. Lets talk about our problem. Let’s just problem-solve it. We are two wonderful
    engineers here at Google doing our fancy algorithms. Lets apply the algorithm,
    and let’s solve our problem. And Elad keep his arms crossed,
    glares at me like that, and we have a problem
    because this isn’t reality. With conflict, that
    picture is not reality. My sense of the reality of
    the picture is more like this. In reality, there’s this
    whole set of emotional forces that start to pull us
    toward adversarialisms. We’re not listening,
    not working things out, even when rationally it makes
    perfect sense for the two of us to work together. We’re on the same project
    team with the same goals. We both can be promoted. There’s no competition. And yet we end up in
    this odd emotional space, sabotaging each other when
    it’s in a sense sabotaging ourselves. What’s going on? And what I’d like to do
    today is to introduce you to some of those forces. You already know them in a way. I’m just putting names
    to things that you know, so that the next time you
    experience them, you can go, uh-oh. We’re about to go into this. Now you have power
    over that experience, rather than that thing
    having power over you. So let me start
    with the deadliest of all of these things. I call it the tribes effect. What do I mean by
    the tribes effect? I mean it’s a divisive mindset. And it could happen
    in any situation. Elad and I might
    be best friends. But the moment we get
    into a conflict situation, that tribal mindset
    starts to sink in. And all of a sudden– think
    about your own conflicts in your own life. All of a sudden, it
    becomes me versus you, us versus that other
    department here at Google. That’s the adversarial mindset. At the same time, I see my
    perspective is absolutely right and legitimate. And Elad, I see, was
    utterly wrong and crazy. And the third characteristic
    of this tribes effect is that I will defend to no ends
    my position, my perspective. And I’m going to close
    my ears to yours. That is the tribes effect. That same year that
    I met Larry Page, awkwardly, something
    else happened. I ran a little exercise
    there at Davos, in those mountains
    of Switzerland. And the exercise is called
    the tribes exercise. I’ve developed it
    over much time. Let me give you just
    a bare-bones sense. So we had a room that
    was not much difference in size to this room. No windows, though. Into the room streamed 45 of the
    usual participants of the World Economic Forum summit. We had a deputy head
    of state, leading CEOs of many different organizations. We had security
    experts, presidents of universities, and on and on
    and on and on– major venture capitalists. They come into the room,
    and almost immediately, I have them do a little project. Divide them up randomly
    into six different groups and say, you now– and
    you know this, Ben. Yes. Ben is a former student and
    also experienced this in his own I believe, yes. So we’ll have to get
    your thoughts afterward. So anyway, we randomly
    divided these leaders into six separate tribes,
    what I call tribes. I said to them, you
    have 50 minutes. And in the next 50 minutes,
    at your own small group, you need to create
    your own tribes. And all of your– what are
    the values of your tribe? What are the beliefs
    of your tribe? Dress up like your tribe. Gave them balloons. Gave them– so literally,
    I have a picture of the deputy head of state
    with a balloon on his head. You know, it is the most
    wonderful blackmail. I will never use it. Anyway, they all do this
    for about 50 minutes. We come back into the room. And now you feel six distinct
    tribes with different energies to each group. And all of a sudden, the
    lights go completely black. And into the room burst this
    intergalactic alien who– big eyes, bulging
    eyes, big head– I am an intergalactic alien. I have come to
    destroy the Earth. I will give you one
    opportunity to save the world from complete destruction. You must choose one
    of these six tribes to be the tribe of everybody. You’ll have three
    rounds of negotiation. And if you cannot come to a
    decision by the end of three rounds of negotiation, the
    world will be destroyed. Ha, ha, ha! And out floats this alien. And as ridiculous as this all
    sounds, the tension in the room emerges. Round one, they cannot
    come to agreement. Round two, the tension builds. Round three, time is ticking,
    ticking, ticking, ticking. Six members in the middle of
    the room, each negotiating on behalf of their own tribe. By chance, it happened to
    be five men, one woman. The moment they get to
    the center of this room, these men start yelling
    over one another. They start yelling
    over this woman. This woman gets so rightly
    enraged at the behavior of her colleagues,
    she literally stands on a bar stool–
    which is what it was– and she yells those lines
    I will never forget. She yells, this is
    just another example of male competitive behavior! You all come to my tribe! One tribe joins hers. The others refuse. And five, four,
    three, two, one, boom. Our world exploded at Davos. And not only did our world
    explode, but our room exploded. I have done this exercise dozens
    and dozens and dozens of times with MIT Sloan students,
    with Harvard students, with Chinese diplomats,
    with people from Australia, from people all across
    the Middle East, literally around the world. And but with the
    smallest of exceptions, the world has exploded again
    and again and again and again. And it’s a metaphor to me. In the course of
    50 minutes– and I have no doubt it would have
    happened here today, as nice as you all are,
    yourself included. The world would have exploded. And how do I account for that? In 50 minutes, we can create
    an identity so very powerful, people are willing to
    die for that identity rather than move toward
    saving the world. You look at our world today,
    you see that in reality. But what happens that
    causes people to go there? The tribes effect. The moment it becomes an us-them
    mentality, it’s a mindset. And a mindset is something that
    sticks over time, sometimes over generations. The moment you get
    there, the conflict is destined for
    explosion or close to it. And it starts to
    feel nonnegotiable. So the question, then,
    is what moves you toward the tribes effect? And what I found
    through the research have been– let’s skip
    that for the moment– have been five emotional forces
    that tend to pull us toward that us-them thinking. And as I talk about these,
    think about your own life. Think about that
    emotionally-charged conflict in your own life. How might these relate to you? So the first of these five
    lures is what I call vertigo. Think about the
    last time you really got into a tough conflict,
    how you got totally consumed in that conflict situation. You know, you’re here at work. Somebody makes a decision. They were supposed
    to consult you. They did not consult you. And all of a sudden,
    you can’t stop thinking about anything other than that. That’s vertigo. You go home at the
    end of the day. You go to see your
    friends or your family. And yes, they’re all
    excited to see you, but you’re still thinking
    about that person here at work who
    screwed you over. You are in that warped
    state of consciousness that I call vertigo. Let me give you an example. There’s a former professor
    of mine from many years back. He told a story– this was in
    my undergraduate, my first year of undergraduate school. There was this eccentric
    English professor. And he said one
    day, he was shopping with his wife for a bedspread. And he says his wife
    thought they absolutely needed the $500 bedspread. And he thought this was the
    most foolish financial decision they could ever make. He says, there we
    are in the mall. And we start to argue. She argues back. I argue more. And so on, he said, until we got
    into a really heated conflict in that mall. And then he says, but just
    for a moment, my eyes averted those of my wife. He said, I saw
    there was a circle of onlookers watching us fight. I had not seen it. And then he says, I
    looked down at my watch. 20 minutes had passed. I thought it was five. This is vertigo. Time and space warp
    when you are in vertigo. You get into that conflict
    with your romantic partner, and all of a sudden, three
    years ago on a Tuesday, you screwed me over. That’s vertigo. The past becomes the present,
    and the feared future becomes the inevitable future. Just as true between
    couples as between Israelis and Palestinians or others. The big advice– the next
    time you find yourself in a heated
    conflict, and you see that tornado of vertigo coming
    toward you, ask the question, do I want to go there? Do I want– and
    sometimes you might. But sometimes, it might make
    more sense to say, no, I don’t. That’s vertigo. All still together? OK, good. So let us go now to the
    second of these lures. And before we do, just
    a little experiment. How many of you–
    I’ll tell you what. I’m going to ask all
    of you to partner up with one other person in this
    room, somebody you do not know. And if all of you could come
    over here, please, and join us, as well, find a partner. Sit next to that partner. And if you do not pair up
    with somebody, I promise you, I will humiliate you. So find a partner. OK? This exercise might feel
    a little uncomfortable. The goal is to learn. So what I ask you to do is the
    following– listen carefully, OK? So we’re going to do
    a little exercise. Now you’ve paired
    up with someone. So you’re going to be sharing
    a few things with your partner. First two things
    you will be sharing from your own experience,
    from your own world– one with the presidential
    elections at play right now with the campaigns. What’s your political leaning? Are you a Democrat? Are you a Republican? An independent? And if you’re not
    from the United States as a citizen, if you were,
    where would you vote? Which side? That’s question one. You’ll share that. Question number two–
    what’s your salary? Do we have any human
    resource people in here? OK, good. I’m already in trouble. OK. Let’s pretend you’re not here. And I want your honest salary. I don’t want some pretend thing. So what’s your salary
    here at Google? And I’m actually curious, too. Third– so the first
    two, you share. The next two, it’s your best
    guess, in a sense, your idea. So how attractive do
    you think this person sitting beside you is? OK? And we are going to go on
    a scale from one to 10. And just so there are no
    hurt feelings, a one is not, you’re ugly. But a one is, eh. So, like, you’re OK. And a 10 is like, you are, like,
    the hottie of the Google world. OK? It’s like, hey, there. So that’s a 10. Final question– what
    do you think the age is of this other person? Precise age, specific numbers. So what do you think the age is? And the cool thing about
    this exercise is afterward, they can share their age. And you can find out if
    you were right or wrong. Good. So that’s the exercise. Any questions before
    we get started? Any questions? AUDIENCE: We don’t tell them how
    attractive we think they are? DANIEL SHAPIRO: No, no, no, no. You will tell them. So you will tell your
    partner, from one to 10– you look like you’re
    getting excited now. I love you! The first Google Talks
    marriage that happened. I don’t know if you’re married. But any other
    questions before– yes? AUDIENCE: What if
    we don’t want to? AUDIENCE: I don’t think
    this is a good idea. DANIEL SHAPIRO: Whoa, whoa. Why not? AUDIENCE: Is this a good idea? I’ll make it in the
    form of a question. DANIEL SHAPIRO: No,
    well, say why you think this might not be a good idea. AUDIENCE: Because the– AUDIENCE: Because this is work. DANIEL SHAPIRO:
    Because this is work? AUDIENCE: Yes. DANIEL SHAPIRO: And
    you are at work. This is Google. This is where you work. I see. Ah, I get the idea of–
    we don’t really work here. No, yeah? AUDIENCE: I just– we
    don’t know anything about this person next to you. DANIEL SHAPIRO: Well,
    that’s what makes this cool. AUDIENCE: –inapropriate
    to express in a brutally honest way with
    someone you have no idea. DANIEL SHAPIRO: So, but I
    mean, it’s just honesty. I mean, there’s nothing, is
    there– what’s your fear? AUDIENCE: Offending. Offending– DANIEL SHAPIRO: OK. Your fear is off– oh,
    your salary’s only that. So there’s a fear of
    offending somebody else in some sort of way. What were you saying, though? I think I misunderstood. AUDIENCE: Yeah. You did misunderstand. I said that it’s because
    we’re all kind of co-workers. And I don’t think
    this kind of questions is appropriate at all. DANIEL SHAPIRO: Why? AUDIENCE: Because this
    is a work environment. DANIEL SHAPIRO: OK. So it’s a work environment. And so you’re saying there are
    certain kinds of questions– AUDIENCE: You don’t need to make
    the other person uncomfortable. You’re going to
    be uncomfortable. DANIEL SHAPIRO: Which
    question is going to make them uncomfortable? AUDIENCE: Actually,
    the two, three, four. DANIEL SHAPIRO:
    Two, three, four. OK. AUDIENCE: I’m fine
    with all the questions. DANIEL SHAPIRO: You’re
    fine with all– OK. Fair enough. And others? What do you think? What’s your feeling? Yeah? AUDIENCE: I actually want to see
    how you convince and negotiate we to start this conversation. DANIEL SHAPIRO: OK. OK. AUDIENCE: You see
    the pushback, and how do you negotiate over it? DANIEL SHAPIRO: Yes. And you see the
    emotions already. No, you did not
    catch my question. I don’t like these questions. This is not
    appropriate for work. And Shapiro, I hate you. Fair enough. AUDIENCE: I didn’t
    say any of that. DANIEL SHAPIRO: No. It was the look. AUDIENCE: I haven’t
    even started. DANIEL SHAPIRO: No, no. Oh, dear. I will take a step back. But notice what you are feeling. And how are you feeling? Honestly how are you feeling? AUDIENCE: Uncomfortable. DANIEL SHAPIRO: Uncomfortable. Anything else? How about back there? And Glenn is like, I chose the
    wrong book-selling experience here. Ah! You know, I am not going
    to have you do this. I will not have you do this. AUDIENCE: I knew that. DANIEL SHAPIRO: Oh, yeah,
    right you knew that. No. But the purpose for
    sharing this with you is to have you experience
    what I call taboos. So taboos are social– AUDIENCE: I have
    another question. DANIEL SHAPIRO: Yes? AUDIENCE: Do people do it? DANIEL SHAPIRO: Do people do it? You know– AUDIENCE: Or is that your
    thing, that we’ll say no. DANIEL SHAPIRO:
    Well, no, no, no. I’ll tell you, I just, as I’ve
    been presenting this new book, there’s this chapter on taboos. And I was like, how do you
    make this come to life? And literally two nights ago was
    the first time I ever did it. So I don’t have a great
    database for this. And this was a group of
    very established lawyers and mediators. And they all became
    very uncomfortable. And then when I
    said, don’t worry. We’re not going to do it,
    they decided not to do it. We’re then afterwards
    at a cocktail reception, you know, just
    immediately afterwards. And someone comes up to me and
    says, with a French accent, somebody came up and
    said, (FRENCH ACCENT) I just have to let you know, we
    are all doing the exercise now. And then he had trauma, though. This particular gentleman
    had trauma because he said, I did not know
    what to do, though. I was sitting beside a woman. I sort of thought she
    was more like a one, but I didn’t know
    whether to call her a 10 or to call her an
    eight because she might think I’m lying with a 10. He was traumatized. So I would dare not have you
    do it, although afterwards, if you want to do it, it’s
    not my responsibility. It’s yours. OK. No. But this is taboos. And you’re right. This feels inappropriate
    to talk about these issues. And the challenge
    is what happens when you are in a
    conflict situation, and the issues that are
    the core issues at play feel taboo to talk about? How do you talk
    about those issues? And every organization has them. Don’t criticize the boss. Or at home, don’t talk
    about Mom’s drinking. Well, if it’s driving
    the dysfunction and you don’t talk about it, you
    are moving toward that tribes effect. There’s a division
    happening, and it’s becoming more and more. And yet, if you do talk
    about it, as you put it, it’s uncomfortable. It’s scary. It can feel dangerous. And you ultimately
    can get punished for talking about the issues. This is taboos. And so in a sense,
    there are certain issues that you should be talking
    about in an organization that you might not be. And then there are
    others that you probably shouldn’t be talking about that
    sometimes people do talk about. Suddenly, I start
    criticizing, oh, your child. Oy, oy, oy, you have
    a difficult child. And you say, excuse me? Might be taboo to
    talk about that. But that’s taboos. The idea here is become aware
    of these underlying forces that create a wall between
    you and the other side. And what do you do then? In the book, I talk more
    explicitly about this. But you have a whole range of
    choices for what you can do. I’ll give you a quick example. The details are
    there in the book. But a number of years back,
    in Charm el-Cheikh, Egypt, I had organized a
    program with Israelis and Palestinian leadership,
    others from the region. And Tony Blair was
    there and others, when he was the
    head of the Quartet. How do you deal
    with taboos that are just dead center at the heart
    of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and yet
    everybody’s scared to death to talk about them? What do you do in
    that situation, when the essence of what you need to
    talk about, by talking about it will result in
    substantial punishment, not even by the other
    side, but by your own side? You’re disloyal to my side. You are a traitor to my side by
    even talking to the other side. It’s taboo. But how in the world can
    you ever resolve a conflict if it’s taboo to even
    talk to the other side? That’s taboos. Let’s move on to the
    third of these five lures of the tribal mind. This is what Sigmund
    Freud initially coined as the repetition compulsion. And this is the
    notion that we all tend to repeat the same
    dysfunctional patterns of behavior again and again
    and again and again in some of our relationships. And this is part of the reason
    why someone can go and take a great course on negotiation
    or read a useful self-help book. And they say, I am a
    transformed person. You come back to Google. And for a week and a
    half, you are transformed. But then two weeks later, three
    weeks later, all of a sudden, you’re back to your
    same old patterns. That is be repetition
    compulsion. And the trick with the
    repetition– the goal is to try to break out of it. If you do something
    dysfunctional– you’re constantly
    confrontational with somebody when you shouldn’t be, you
    constantly avoid a conversation when you probably shouldn’t. The challenge to breaking out
    of this repetition compulsion is that it feels utterly
    unnatural to do it. It feels not like
    part of who you are. Let me give you an example. I have a very close friend
    who for more than 25 years has been living in and
    suffering through an emotionally abusive relationship. And finally, a month
    ago– literally a month ago– she broke out
    of this relationship. She goes to Washington,
    DC and lives with some friends of mine. And she’s there. And what happens
    every single day? Now, she’s safe now. She’s moving forward. She has a new relationship
    that’s emerging. And yet what do you think
    she does every single day? She obsesses. Should I go back? Should I go back? Should I go back? And you know that
    this is not healthy. It’s not good for
    her well-being. And yet every single
    day– and I regret to inform you that about
    a week ago, she went back. This is the
    repetition compulsion. Now, did she learn and
    grow through that process? Absolutely. But it’s extremely
    difficult to break out of that repetition compulsion. It’s possible. But it is another reason
    why our conflicts often feel so nonnegotiable. Let’s move on to
    the fourth of the– and I’ll skip this
    next part here. Let’s move on to the
    fourth of these five lures. This is what I call an
    assault on the sacred. We all have things that are
    personally, deeply meaningful to us. And if you feel that I
    have offended something that is deeply
    meaningful to you, it can feel like an attack,
    an assault on who you are and what you stand for. And the moment that I
    attack that part of you, whether elements of your gender,
    your race, your ethnicity, your family, the fact that you
    are Google– and I go, Google. Whatever. And I will give you
    a real-life example that happened just yesterday. So I was at Microsoft
    yesterday in Seattle. And it’s about a third of
    the way through the talk. And I accidentally called the
    people at Microsoft Google. And I was like a third
    of the way through. I said the Goo– and
    I went, no you didn’t. And yes I did. And half the group
    went, no, you didn’t. And I went, yes, I did. This was an assault
    on the sacred. Now, some came up to
    me afterward and said, I didn’t really care at all. I just felt empathic for you. Faux pas. And I went, yeah. But for some in the group, this
    was an assault on the sacred. Your identity starts
    to get connected, whether it’s here at Google
    or there at Microsoft. And the moment I say, oh,
    you’re a great group here at Microsoft, you say,
    we’re not Microsoft. We’re Google. That’s an attack. So in other words, the sacred
    can be something religious, but it doesn’t have to be. It can be anything that we hold
    deeply, personally meaningful. You spend five months putting
    together a major new product or a part of an algorithm,
    whatever it might be. And you dedicated your heart
    and your soul to this thing. Day and night, you are here. You are sleeping on the
    little couches over there. You’re eating the wonderful
    free food you have here. But you are doing this. You’re investing your soul. And then five months later,
    your boss comes along and says, oh, so
    sorry to inform you, but we decided we’re not
    going to move forward with that after all. That can feel like an
    assault on the sacred. And all of a sudden, even
    the most beautiful boss in the world, the most
    kind, generous boss, it can start to feel
    like the tribes effect. It is me versus you. We’re not on the same page. That’s that. And you know what? Let’s think about this
    in a real-life example. So part of the work
    I do is in working with hostage
    negotiators, working with crisis negotiators. And I thought we might
    think about an example based upon a real-life situation. I did not negotiate in
    the real-life situation. I learned about this situation
    through a training program with the New York Police
    Department hostage negotiation team. But I thought we’d think
    about this together. So the basic situation–
    first, how many of you have been to New York City? Almost all of you. How many of you have been to the
    subway system in New York City? OK. This situation happened
    there a number of years back. There was a gentleman,
    about 26 years old. He was clearly suffering from
    mental illness– schizophrenia, delusions of grandeur. He had a tendency
    toward violence. Most people who suffer
    from mental illness, even more extreme forms
    of mental illness, they’re not violent. We see it in the media,
    but that’s a fiction, to some degree. It doesn’t account for the
    real statistics of how much violence occurs, which is very
    minimal, with those who are suffering from mental illness. Anyway, this gentleman’s there. He’s sort of wandering
    around the subway platform, just wandering around. And as he’s wandering
    around, he sees a woman, sees a woman about 20 years old
    carrying a baby in her arms. And he sees this woman. He runs up to the woman. He grabs the baby
    out of her arms. He pushes the woman
    into the train track, runs off into the
    janitor’s closet, locks the door behind him. And about five minutes later,
    the New York Police Department hostage negotiation
    team, they get there. And they hear behind the door,
    if this child is an angel, I love this child! It’s a demon, you know
    what I need to do! If this child is an
    angel, I love him! This child’s a demon, you
    know what I need to do! And bang, bang, bang. We’re banging on the door. Open up, open up, open up. And does our approach work? What do you think? Does our– yes or no? Yes or no? AUDIENCE: No. DANIEL SHAPIRO: Come on! Yes or no? AUDIENCE: No! DANIEL SHAPIRO: Of course not! It completely fails to work. And why? What are we failing to
    do in this situation? We are absolutely
    failing to appreciate what this gentleman sees as
    sacred in this situation. We do not know what he
    considers as sacred, in fact. And the situation escalates. If this child is an
    angel, I love him! This child’s a demon, you
    know what we have to do! If this child is
    an angel, love him! This child’s a demon, you know–
    and what are you gonna say now? What are you gonna say? What are you gonna say? I’m gonna kill this
    child in three seconds if you don’t say something. AUDIENCE: Child’s an angel. DANIEL SHAPIRO: What
    are you gonna say? And say it again? AUDIENCE: The child’s an angel. DANIEL SHAPIRO: And say it
    louder so everybody can hear. AUDIENCE: This child’s an angel! DANIEL SHAPIRO: This
    child is an angel! This child is an angel. We said those precise words on
    this other side of the door. The child is an angel! And did it work? What do you think? Yes or no? AUDIENCE: Yes. DANIEL SHAPIRO: Of course! Of course! Of course– not, unfortunately. It does not work because all
    of a sudden, this gentleman on the other side of the
    door, he suddenly says, angel! Angel, angel! How do you know? How do you know? How do you know this child? How do you know this
    child is an angel? You said there were three people
    on the other side of the door. How many people are really on
    the other side of the door? And all of a sudden,
    we had now made precisely the
    opposite error that we had made but three
    minutes ago in this room and undoubtedly hours in
    the real-life situation. And it all has to do with this
    basic concept of appreciation. Because in a sense, when we’re
    first banging on the door– open up, open up,
    open up– how much appreciation is going on then? AUDIENCE: None. DANIEL SHAPIRO: Nada. Nothing. Zero. We are approaching this
    situation like interrogators. You tell me what I need to know! That approach doesn’t work
    very well in interrogation, and it certainly doesn’t work
    well in hostage negotiation. But then, three minutes
    later in this room right now, we are way on this
    other side of appreciation, in a sense over-appreciating,
    assuming we know more about what is going on in the
    mind of this hostage-taker than he knows. And that is a
    dangerous place to be. And, I mean, just
    to make this real, let’s say I come home
    on a Friday night. And there, my beautiful wife
    is at the door waiting for me. And I say, hi, how you doing? And she says, I have had the
    most frustrating day of my life with your three boys. Now, if my response to
    my wife is, oh, honey. I know exactly how frustrated
    you are, I’m in trouble. In a sense, I am
    over-appreciating. I am assuming I
    know more about what is going on in her mind,
    her heart than she knows. And you’ll have to trust me,
    that is a dangerous place to be. So here we were. We were stuck in
    this negotiation. Life in the real
    situation was on the line. What do you do? And the best advice
    I can give you is the simplest
    and most difficult advice in the
    world, two things– listen, and ask good,
    open-ended questions. Talk to us. What do you want? How can we help you? And once we started asking those
    questions, we started to learn. We started to learn this
    gentleman was not crazy, at least from his perspective. He was trying to save the world. Save the world from the
    demons, bring in the good guys. And once we understood
    that, it completely changed our approach
    to the negotiation because now we could
    say, you know what? I’m NYPD. I don’t see the angels you see. I don’t see the demons you see. But I hear you saying you’re
    trying to save the world. And you know what? In our own small way,
    here at NYPD, we’re trying to save the world, too. Why don’t you open up that door
    and see if we can try and save this world together? And literally
    three minutes later that little door squeaks
    open, out walks that gentleman with baby in arms. But it is a challenge,
    and a real challenge– how do you appreciate? And how do you appreciate
    when your values, your beliefs feel on the line? The tendency, if I
    attack you, the tendency is you’re going to defend. No, Shapiro, it’s your
    fault. It’s not mine. The most powerful tool you have
    at your disposal here at work, at home, any
    situation, is the power to appreciate the other
    side’s perspective. The moment they feel
    truly understood, heard, and valued for
    their perspective, that’s the moment that the
    nonnegotiable starts to become more negotiable, whether
    it’s these big international conflicts, hostage situation,
    or that annoying colleague here at work who you just
    cannot get along with. Assault on the sacred. The final and fifth of
    these, really quickly, so we have time for questions is
    what I call identity politics. What do I mean by
    identity politics? It is the shaping of identity
    for some political purpose. And you do it every single day. You may not know you are
    doing it, but you’re doing it. The moment you buddy up to
    one of your senior authority figures or leaders
    and say, hey, that was really fun at
    the party last night. You build the relationship. And then an hour
    later, you say, and I need an extra week’s vacation. You know? That’s identity politics. The danger in a
    conflict is that we tend to create an
    identity that’s what I and some
    other researchers call a negative identity. I define myself as against you. Just watch the
    political debates with the presidential candidates
    that have been ongoing. Each one of them says,
    I am not this person. I am not that person. I am not this person. I am not that person. Well, who are you, then? What is your positive–
    what defines who you are, not who you are not? Yes, you’re not Microsoft. Yes, you’re not that. But who is Google? And what are the basic
    values, beliefs, rituals that define who you are? And you absolutely
    have them here. As I walked into
    Google, you can feel, there’s a vibe, a special
    vibe that’s in this place. That’s a positive identity. And when you get into a conflict
    with your best friend, don’t just go, you know, I
    don’t want to be like you. That’s not helpful. Here’s who I am. Help me understand
    who you are and how can we, then, work together
    to deal with our differences? So you put all this together,
    you have a little model. And the basic idea
    is that this is trying to capture the underlying
    emotional dynamics that bring us into that negative
    realm in a conflict situation. They turn what seems so
    rationally easy to resolve into an emotional mess. But you can deal with each
    one of these five lures. It’s not easy. It’s not a quick fix. But its true power. So with that, big
    points are there. Big points to overcome an
    emotionally-charged conflict– it’s not enough to simply try
    to look beneath each side’s positions to the underlying
    interests or things like that. That’s important. That’s essential. But if you do not deal with
    these underlying forces, they will suck you
    down, and you’re going to end up in that
    tribes effect, when that’s not to your benefit. So with that, let me just
    say a huge thank you. I’d love to open it up to
    questions, to hear where your minds are at right now. Questions? Thoughts? Criticisms? AUDIENCE: The tribes effect can
    play in one-on-one conflict, right? It’s who you think you are
    versus who you think they are. DANIEL SHAPIRO: Yes. So the tribes effect– exactly. It can be either me versus
    you or us versus them. It’s a divisive mindset. And the big advice on how to get
    out of it– like what can you do in your next conflict? The simplest advice– turn that
    other person from an adversary into a partner. Simple things you can
    do– if you and I are in the midst of a
    conflict situation, again, the typical approach is
    attack, counterattack. Simple tool you
    can do, ask advice. Look, we’ve been struggling
    through this conflict for the past three
    months here at work. I don’t think it’s helping us. I don’t think you
    think it’s helping us. You have any thoughts
    on what we could do? And you see what’s
    happening now. All of a sudden, we’ve been
    battling back and forth. Now, it’s me and you
    sitting side by side. You’re not the problem. I’m not the problem. The problem is here between us. How are we going
    to deal with it. That’s the way out of the
    tribes effect, in a way, transforming it. It’s not me versus you. It’s the two of us facing
    this shared problem. AUDIENCE: Also about
    the tribe effect, I’m quite interested in
    the first example you gave. You do the experiment
    with setting up six tribes and never get resolved. No one reached an agreement. Did you do any
    control experiment? Like if you do not set
    up a tribe beforehand, did they reach
    through an agreement? Or if after it you do
    anything to help them to converge to an agreement? It DANIEL SHAPIRO: Well,
    let me start by saying I don’t see it as an experiment. I see it as a very
    emotionally-compelling, sensitive classroom
    exercise because you really can get emotions there. And it takes effort
    to corral the emotions in a productive
    direction, ultimately. The world has been
    saved sometimes. The world exploded at MIT? AUDIENCE: I don’t remember. DANIEL SHAPIRO: I think it did. Yeah, good. I don’t remember. But no, when the
    world hasn’t exploded, it’s been striking, as well. So, for example, at
    one point– and I talk about this in the
    book– a colleague and myself were running an executive
    education program at Harvard. And we had about 60 or
    so mid-career executives, from their 40s to mid-60s or so. And starting in round one,
    this one executive immediately took leadership control. He just got up, brought out the
    flip-chart paper, got a pen, and said, OK. What are your beliefs? What are your values? What are your beliefs? And just taking total control. And by the middle of round
    three, he turns to us, and he says, we’ve
    chosen a tribe. I said, really? And I remember
    whispering to my– and all the other groups nod. And they said, yeah, yeah, yeah. We’ve all agreed. And I remember whispering
    then to my colleague, who I was co-facilitating
    with, and saying, boy. This is going to be a
    very boring debrief. Because I like when
    the world explodes. It creates internal tension that
    you can learn from and so on. I was totally wrong. I get up in front of the group,
    and I ask the very open-ended question, how you feeling? And there was one gentleman
    in the back, raises his hand. And I say, yes, you sir. He stands up, points
    at the gentleman who’d been taking charge of the
    entire negotiation, and he says, I would rather die than be
    in a tribe with that man! And then somebody
    else then goes, yeah! Who gave you the
    right to be leader? Yeah! And who gave you the right
    to have the microphone? And why’d you bring the
    flip-chart paper up? And voom, you had a
    tribes effect in our room. You know? And just, the room split
    into half like Moses with that sea, half for
    him, half against him. And it was rough, emotionally,
    I mean, to the extent that after this exercise, this
    gentleman– after everybody else left, this gentleman
    was still in the room. Now, this guy was probably,
    I’d say, in his early 60s, a very successful executive. He came up to my colleague
    and myself literally in tears. And he said all he was trying
    to do was save the world. And I remember my colleague
    had this striking response. My colleague held a very
    high-level political position previously and made some
    controversial political decisions. He turns to him, and he says the
    very wise response– it’s true. Sometimes a leader needs to
    make very difficult decisions that you know are
    right but that may meet with negative ramifications. So it’s challenging. There’s not really a
    win in that exercise. The only other times that the
    world has really been saved has when people
    haven’t ultimately engaged in the exercise. They’re not taking
    on that new identity. In the Middle East,
    for example, once, as I was doing the
    exercise, it just so turned out that three of
    the four people negotiating in the middle of the room
    were all from the military. And no matter how much I would
    say, keep your tribal identity, tribal identity, tribal
    identity, tribal identity, they said, no, no, no, no. That guy ranks superior to me. So, I mean, there are
    certain tribal identities that are emotionally more
    weighty than any that you can construct in a room. But I look at our
    world right now, and yes, there are
    some beautiful things about our world. But our world also has
    some messy things about it. And concepts like
    Google, in a sense– amazing what you are
    able to do in our world, allowing the information
    to move back and forth. And yet at the same time,
    there’s also the danger that you see these
    tribes forming in the real world,
    some positive– the various
    different sub-cliques and groups on the internet. And then you have the
    ISISes and the others who also forming tribes. But this is our world right now. And that’s why I think this
    book is so timely, in a sense, because how do you deal
    with these conflicts? They’re not rational. And yet our whole
    world right now, whether it’s climate
    change or something else, is depending upon all
    of us, this generation, to negotiate these, in a sense,
    seemingly nonnegotiable issues. Other questions? Yes? AUDIENCE: You talked
    about how difficult it is to address the taboos
    that are within an organization or between groups. Do you have strategies for
    how to get to that issue and how to discuss
    taboos productively? DANIEL SHAPIRO: Yes. So in the book,
    I talk about what I call the ACT framework, A-C-T.
    And this is not rocket science. It’s just a way of
    trying to organize one’s thinking around taboos. The basic idea is first to just
    think through, either alone or, as I did in Charm el-Cheikh,
    with a small group of people and a private– thank you. I don’t know why we all have
    to pause, but thank you! OK. Awkward to leave now. OK. It is now very taboo to
    walk out of this room. No. But in the book, I talk about
    the ACT framework, A-C-T. So the first thing
    you want to do is to think through,
    what are taboos that are impeding productivity
    within our organization, within your family? And it’s sensitive. One might say, oh,
    in our organization, we deal effectively
    and effortfully with gender discrimination
    or racial discrimination. It’s often the case. And yet, at the
    end of the day, you see people going at the coffee
    houses afterward and saying, you know what? Things aren’t as good
    as they could be. But it feels taboo to
    actually really talk about it in the organization. So you can get a group together
    of trusted people, differing views and act. Do we want to accept that taboo? Two, do we want
    to chisel it away? Subtly think, what
    are some small ways we can try and change this taboo? Or three, do we want
    to just tear it down? Do we want to be
    Nelson Mandela going, we will not live in a
    segregated society more! We are going to tear down
    this economic, this political, this apartheid wall. That’s chiselling it down,
    and that is precisely the set of questions
    that we asked in Charm el-Cheikh, Egypt. What are the pros? What are the cons? Last point– taboos aren’t
    necessarily all bad. There are some taboos that
    actually are quite good. It might be good not
    to share salaries. That’s a useful question
    to think through. You look at the issue of
    violence in our world. And I have young kids. And every day, I swear,
    I get scared to death when I say goodbye to them. Is there going to be
    a school shooting? And the taboo line
    in terms of violence has just gone much too far
    in the wrong direction. What can we as a
    global community do to shift that taboo back
    in a different direction, to get students involved,
    the alienated students? Other students to
    say, you know what? This is unacceptable. How can we all work together? Not tribes effect,
    me versus you. But how can we all
    work together to try and shift that taboo line? So taboos, they’re complicated. But if you don’t
    deal with them, they can cause that crazy dynamic. So with that, let me just
    say it is a huge, huge honor to be here at Google. And it’s a privilege to
    talk with all of you. Please, keep in touch. Tell me– if you
    do have the book, tell me what you like about it. Tell me what you don’t. That will be the next book. So honestly, it’s
    an honor to be here. Thank you all so much. Thank you. [APPLAUSE]

    Happy Together – The Amazing Groups Special [ENG/2016.09.01]
    Articles, Blog

    Happy Together – The Amazing Groups Special [ENG/2016.09.01]

    August 19, 2019


    Happy to be together on Happy Together! – Hello. / – Hello. (Happy Together) – Recently, there are many duos / – Yes. – that are popular. / – That’s right. Gong Yoo and Ma Dongseok are one. – Right. / – They’re the best. – Certainly. / – Gong Yoo and Ma Dongseok are one. They are a great duo in the film industry. – In the TV industry, / – Yes. – there are Jaeseok and Myungsoo. / – Right. I mentioned this – because today’s guests are popular together. / – Yes. I heard that Hyunmoo and Myungsoo – guaranteed that they’re great together. / – Yes. Let’s bring them in now. The duo I invited is composed of two feisty girls. They are indeed feisty. Please welcome Baek Zyoung and Lee Jihye! – Hello. / – Hello. (The first duo is Baek Zyoung and Lee Jihye.) – Hello. / – Welcome, Zyoung and Jihye. (Zyoung debuted in 1997.) (Jihye debuted in 1998.) These two girls are the representatives of the feisty ladies in the entertainment industry. It’s now the turn of Celebrity Collector, Myungsoo. His guests are already out. – We haven’t introduced them, yet. / – You’re so slow. Gosh. Go back inside, you idiots! – You’re idiots. / – Idiots? You are distracting us. “I want to be on the shoot!” They’re finally coming out. I will bring in the trio that dominates the hip hop scene in Korea. – What? / – DinDin, Crush and Loco! Crush. Welcome, Loco. (Crush is known for his unique voice.) (Loco is known for his many songs.) (Everything DinDin does or says becomes a new trend.) I always go clubbing with you. – I’m really suing you. / – You should tell your mom. That’s what your parents are for. (The ladies can’t get used to them.) They’re talking like middle schoolers again. Look at that. (The ladies try to teach the young boys) (how to do this.) (But the boys won’t let them win.) That’s not it! (Together they will make a great hit.) Her song will become popular once again. Here we have a great duo, Baek Zyoung and Lee Jihye. Also we have a great trio with us. The hippest hip hop musicians, DinDin, Crush and Loco! (The hippest hip hop musicians are here.) Gosh. Don’t Zyoung and Jihye make a boring pair? We’ve seen them too much. Some people might think that we’re boring. But Jihye took a long break from work. – She’s come back recently, and… / – She’s active. Yes. She’s very active. So it’ll be different today. Whenever I turn on the TV, she’s there. She’s everywhere. – Do you have more stories to tell? / – We do. – Really? / – We came up with new ones. – We came up with new ones. / – Last week? – You have new stories. / – We worked until yesterday. – Is that right? / – Until this morning. She goes up the stage alone when there’s no one else. She goes up and checks out everyone. – She checks the dance. / – She checks out everyone? – Yes. / – Hey, watch what you say. So we weren’t mistaken. – After that, we almost never saw each other. / – Why? – We slandered each other too much. / – You did. – We slandered each other too much. / – It was fun. At that time, Jihye came dressed like a daughter-in-law of a rich family in Cheongdam-dong. – I remember that. / – I did. That’s where I got my character. – It was popular. / – Do you want to be one? No, no. I don’t. I don’t care about a particular town now. – It can be anywhere in Korea. / – Anywhere in Korea. Wherever it is, I want to join another family as a daughter-in-law. You’re not obsessed with Cheongdam-dong anymore. – You just want to get married. / – No, I’m humble now. You could join the family from Gokseong. – But it’s like this. / – Gokseong family. It’ll be just like the movie “The Wailing”. If there’s a man she loves there, why not? – Where do you live, Zyoung? / – In Cheongdam-dong. (Zyoung actually lives in Cheongdam-dong.) – I live there. / – She was successful all along. So that’s me. – But she’s a self-made woman. / – Yes. I want to marry a man who’s born rich. I want my husband to be a successful man. – You want a rich man. / – I used to be like that. – I used to be like that. / – You used to be like that. Zyoung is a self-made woman. – By the way, this duo guarantees fun. / – Of course. Myungsoo calls himself the Celebrity Collector. I thought he’d bring in G-Dragon and Zico. It’s my first time to meet some of them today. I thought he was Sehyung. – That one. / – Sehyung is popular. – Now… / – Loco looks like Crong. – Crong? / – Yes, the crocodile. (Crong) Crush looks more like Crong. – Right! / – Crush looks a lot like Crong. – Please introduce your friends. / – They both do. – They’re like cartoon characters. / – Yes. (Are they characters from “Pororo the Little Penguin”?) DinDin and I… are on a radio show together. He’s a rising star. He talks so well. – I see. / – Crush and Loco are Korea’s two best hip hop musicians. – Yes. / – Yes. I heard they’re music gangsters. (Music gangsters?) – You mean record? / – Record? – It’s record. / – Record. – Record gangsters. / – That’s what I meant. – Wait. / – I don’t know who they beat up. – DinDin was on “Show Me the Money 2.” / – Yes, I was. – He failed immediately. / – At the time, DinDin… – He failed immediately? / – I didn’t fail immediately. – I made it just before the finals. / – Is that right? Because of me, “Show Me the Money” could continue. – I see. / – The main writer of the show told me… – Is that right? / – I was the only non-celebrity to join the show and it suits the show’s intention. I only remember you using your mom’s credit card. That’s actually all we remember about DinDin. – You were famous for that. / – That’s scary. That’s right. – I blamed him while watching it. / – What did you say? How could he use his… I was just discharged from the army. I had no money. – You should’ve gotten a part-time job. / – Still… He reminded me of Ji Sangryeol when he was young. I was just discharged from the army. I had no money. (He was just like Ji Sangryeol.) I had part-time jobs. One month after I got discharged, I worked at an Italian restaurant. Then I joined “Show Me the Money” and I passed. So I threw the pasta and my apron and left. I had to prepare for the competition. But I had no money now. What could I do? I had to ask help from my mom. What else are parents for? (His parents are there to give him money?) To give you allowances? I told my mom that I wanted to take my job seriously – and that I needed her help. / – Right. She answered “Yes, my son.” So it doesn’t make sense for me to refuse her offer, you know? Of course I should thank her and say I’ll try hard. You should’ve said, “I will stand on my own feet!” – But still… / – Crush or Loco think – he shouldn’t have told his mom about it. / – Right. – You should’ve prepared for it alone. / – Right. None of you have served in the army yet, right? – That’s why. / – Wouldn’t it make you more mature? – No. / – That’s usually what happens. – He should refuse her help / – He should be mature. but instead, he used his mom’s credit card. – Do you still use your mom’s card? / – I use my debit. – Your debit card. / – Your debit card. I sometimes give my mom some pocket money. – That’s lovely. / – Recently, I sent her on a vacation to Guam with my money. When did you stop using your mom’s credit card then? That’s recent. My financial situation suddenly got better this year. – Your record sales must be good. / – Not really. – Then how did you earn money? / – I go to – weddings as an MC. / – You don’t sing at weddings? – You don’t sing at weddings? / – When people ask me, I tell them I can be the MC instead. You volunteer yourself. – I don’t know how to sing. / – He’s a rapper. – But still… / – He goes to all the events. That’s good. Zyoung, you find them all adorable. I think they are all very cute. I like all of them. – I see. / – How about you, Jihye? – How do you like them? / – They’re all right. – Jihye’s not interested. / – She doesn’t know them. She only cares about how she should do today. – Of course. / – That’s not it. – I know her well. / – That’s not true. She’s busy preparing for her talk. – I’m not that greedy. / – She’s busy. – I have no ambition. / – I am sure about it. – She came here to change her life. / – No. – She’s organizing her stories. / – She’s sweating. In the waiting room, she told me, “DinDin, I am nervous.” So I asked her why, and she said she hasn’t been on public TV for a while. – Really? / – She said she had to do well. – Is that right? / – Yes. – Anyway, it’s time to introduce Loco. / – Loco. Loco is amazing, too. On the first season of “Show Me the Money”… – He won. / – He won on the first season of “Show Me the Money”. (The hippest hip hop musician is here.) DinDin says that… he’s the one who built “Show Me the Money”. – But Loco did it first. / – Loco made it happen. The first season had bad viewer ratings, – and there weren’t too many people in it. / – Really? It’s true that there weren’t too many people. Earlier, he said he was the only non-celebrity. But I was the first non-celebrity on the show. – On the first season. / – He was first. – He was in university then. / – How about you? I was just discharged from the army and had no job. – A student is a non-celebrity, too. / – I was no one. – He had nothing to do. / – I had no identity. You had no identity. Who doesn’t have an identity? – Can you introduce yourself with a rap? / – Can you? Actually, I feel sorry to ask rappers – to demonstrate. / – They’re good. – DinDin, let’s go. / – Improvise one. – Since you’re the winner, you go first. / – Yes. – That was random. / – He’s the winner. – That’s random. / – Hurry. I can’t even talk well when I have to improvise. – Yes. / – It’s better to write it down. – Just do what you always do. / – I will do it. – DinDin will do it. / – Can you handle it? – I will start rapping. / – All right. Okay. ♪ Compared to other kids, DinDin is small ♪ ♪ I’ve been looking up the sky and finally ♪ ♪ Now nobody can look down on me ♪ ♪ Now I am my friends’ pride ♪ ♪ My weapon is my overflowing talent ♪ ♪ Wherever I was I earned for myself ♪ ♪ Yeah ♪ (Show Me My Debit Card!) – That was good. / – That was a good one. – I was the leader of “Show Me the Money.” / – Good. He is the leader. Next is Loco. ♪ Yeah ♪ ♪ 1989 is the year I was born ♪ ♪ My mom invested in me ♪ ♪ I was born with a mole under my eyebrows ♪ ♪ I got the huge hands from my dad ♪ It was very simple yet catchy. – DinDin is amazing. / – Why? While Loco was rapping, he asked Myungsoo, “Didn’t I do I better?” Goodness. (Didn’t I do better?) – Loco seemed more laid-back. / – Yes. DinDin was trying to show off. It sounded like DinDin wrote his ahead of time. – And Loco improvised his. / – Loco’s sounded like it was improvised, but yours didn’t. Recently, I shot a commercial with Mr. Song Hae. – That one? / – That song is very popular. – That is popular. / – That’s my hit song. ♪ I don’t know how people handle bank transactions ♪ ♪ I don’t know, I hate complicated things ♪ And the girl sings. Mr. Song rapped. “My name is Song Hae” “I want bank transactions” – I’ve seen it. / – “I want bank transactions” All your famous songs are… Are there any of own your songs that are popular? Why are only your songs for commercials popular? What if you become like Mr. Kim Dohyang and specialize in songs for commercials? I don’t want to. I’m a rapper. – I… / – What are you talking about? I don’t want to. I don’t want to. Okay. I understand DinDin’s situation now. – I don’t want to. / – That was very realistic. He didn’t say, “No.” It was “NO.” – “I’m a rapper.” / – “I’m a rapper.” – I want to do well. / – “I want to do well.” – I know. / – But he is doing well. Crush is unbelievable. – He’s amazing. / – Whenever he releases an album, – It goes viral. / – it tops all the music charts. – “Sofa.” / – Yes. – “Don’t Forget.” / – “Don’t Forget.” – It was featured by Taeyeon. / – I loved it. Your songs always top the music charts. In just 2 years after his debut, he released 30 songs. It’s unbelievable. 30 songs in 2 years? – I didn’t know. / – Really? How is it, Crush? You must earn a lot from royalty. You can’t mention the actual amount, so… Yong Junhyung said he can afford an imported car. He could afford to buy a German car. – A used one. / – A three-year-old diesel car. – Monthly income, you mean? / – Yes. – Monthly income. / – I don’t earn that much. – When I earn the most, / – Yes. I can afford… – a German car. / – It’s another German car. – Three series. / – 3.0? – Three series? / – Three series? – 320. / – 320. – Three series. / – Is it used or new? – Used? / – New. – In a month? / – That’s beautiful. – In a month? / – That’s beautiful. – That’s a monthly income. / – It’s not like that now. – Is that from “Don’t Forget”? / – That’s the highest. – That was the peak. / – There was a time like that. – That was when I earned the most. / – Right. But it doesn’t last long. – Now, my income is halved. / – How about in July? I wish I can earn even the half of that. That’s a lot, too. You’re good. – Lovely. / – He earns a lot, too. Loco must earn a lot, too. I know his income from last year. But I usually write lyrics. When I earn the most, I can afford to buy – a Korean compact car. / – A Korean car. – How about the engine? / – A full option car. – A full option car. / – A full option compact car. A full option compact car. A full option car is expensive. I was curious about this. I release albums, too. – The record sales depend on / – Right. the featured artist. You don’t feature for just anyone, right? When someone I know asks me, I can’t refuse it. – So… / – Same here. Just this month, I featured five songs. – You do it for everyone. / – Loco features a lot. – That’s not good. / – You can’t reject people. His nickname is Yu Jaeseok of the hip hop industry. He’s too kind. He’s too nice yet he refused to work with DinDin. He refused to feature mine. I asked him, and he said, “Talk to my agency, DinDin.” – What? / – He gave me his boss’ number. – But he’s your close friend. / – He gave him – his boss’ number. / – Was I not your friend? – He gave his boss’ number. / – That’s too harsh. He said he does that to people who are not his friend. There are people waiting to work with him. Zyoung wants to work with Crush. – Really? / – I’ve been waiting. – Did you talk about anything yet? / – No. He knows how to turn people down politely. What? How did he do that? He said he was busy. – We should learn. / – It was because… – He’s very popular these days. / – Yes. It’s hard enough for him to handle his own work. I understand. I was just joking. – Of course. / – I told him he could write any song he wants and give it to me. – You approve his talent. / – Of course. – I am so thankful. / – Jihye, say something you want. There’s a reason you’re here. – I’m really free. / – I… – What do you say? / – No. I want BewhY. – BewhY? / – BewhY is extremely busy these days. – BewhY is even busier. / – Really. How popular is BewhY? BewhY is at the very top. Is he at the very top? – Can’t I even dream of it? / – He’s at the top. Recently, there was a survey on our brand power. BewhY ranked number one. Number two was Leessang. – I love him. / – How about Loco? – He’s unbelievable. / – How about me? I should call you my boss now. He’s the boss. He’s Crush, you know. Anyone more popular than you is a boss. Anyone more popular than me is my boss. I heard DinDin’s nickname is “Dinspatch”. I am called “Dinspatch”. You must know a lot of entertainment news. I know almost everything about the hip hop world. – What are the things you know? / – I know people’s income, relationship status… and their current situation with their agencies. – I should stay away from him. / – Company politics. I know Loco’s income. – How do you know that? / – How do you know? How do you know that? I’ve never said it. I don’t know how I know. I just know. – How do you do that? / – Nowadays, which rapper earns the most? Number one is… – Dok2. / – Right. It’s him and his line of musicians. Loco is one of the top rappers. Loco is one of the highest-paid rappers. Before “Show Me the Money 5”, he was within the top five. – But not now. / – He was at the top. But after “Show Me the Money 5”, BewhY went to the top. – Simon Dominic went viral. / – He did. Those guys started to top the music charts. That caused this upheaval. It takes about three months to get paid. Right. You’re still in the top five. – Really? / – It will happen in three months. How about you? What’s your rank? On the survey, I ranked number 21. (DinDin ranked number 21.) Do you earn more with variety shows or records? I earn almost nothing from my records. My earnings from TV appearances make up for my loss. So I’m too scared to release songs now. How about Crush? Crush is also my boss now. – Crush is my boss, too. / – Who’s a higher boss? Loco is still higher. His contract terms are better. – You know about his contract terms? / – I do. – How do you know that? / – Really? How do you know that? That’s confidential. It goes like this. You wouldn’t know that unless someone tells you. He might be mistaken. – I’m sure about it. / – My bosses are – Simon Dominic and Jay Park. / – Yes. They gave me the bigger share of the contract. He signed with very good terms. – That’s nice of them. / – Do you want to join them? No. No matter where I belong, I have to do well. – Of course. / – So… But his agency has better terms. Chasing after better terms leads nowhere. – Right. / – He said this the other time. He wants to succeed with this agency and be a benefit to them. – He’s a good guy. / – He’s right. Even though I look ungrateful, I’m actually loyal. How are the rappers’ love lives? – The rappers’ love lives? / – Yes. (Loco turns his head.) – Loco. / – Did you see Loco? – Did you see him turning his head? / – Loco? I thought you were a magnet. – I thought he was playing a game. / – I was. – Why? / – They are avoiding each other’s eyes. – I don’t have anyone. / – Yours is over. What’s over? (DinDin betrays his friend.) – He’s flustered. / – Gosh. Crush is flustered. That’s not… I’m really going to sue you. Goodness. Suing me would be too dramatic. That’s not enough to sue him. – Who was it? / – You should… I meant that you’re done with this album. I watch a lot of variety shows. You know the show with a lot of reporters, right? DinDin was one of the panellists. I was so curious about whom they were talking about, so I asked DinDin who it is. – And he told the name right away. / – What did he say? You can’t say that. That’s a secret. – Really? / – Yes. I’m done with that show. I’m not on that show anymore. He tells us everything. Whenever we talk about idols, DinDin asks us if we want to meet them. – He acts as the love bridge. / – Why? How? That “love bridge” expression is too old. (How old is she?) You act as a matchmaker. We call it “maid”. – “Maid.” / – “Love bridge” is too much. But I think Loco is our generation. Now people just call DinDin as it is. But Loco say “Our DinDin”. So it looks like – he’s one of us. / – Stop it. (Her attempt fails.) All right. Let’s rest a little bit. – Let’s move on. / – Zyoung is here. – Zyoung is here. / – Jihye, – all your friends got married. / – Yes. How do you feel? You were always together. I felt so sad at first, but it was actually better. – Why? / – They had split up initially, and they ended up getting married. They had split up before? Is it okay if she says this? Shouldn’t you stop her? How can you say that here? – How could you? / – They’ll fight after this. – After the shoot. / – But you’re happy now. – Couples fight sometimes. / – It can happen. – They fought and broke up, but… / – Right. – They broke up and got back together. / – I see. She has never told this on TV before. – It means they’re meant to be. / – She’s unbelievable. – I haven’t heard this before. / – They’re meant to be. – They got back together and got married. / – Right. After they broke up, did she go out and have fun? Yes, she did. That’s not true. I couldn’t even eat back then. Goodness. She’s being tactless. It’s partly true. – I can’t believe her. / – She couldn’t even eat. She’ll be on top of the internet hit list. It doesn’t happen to me a lot. I couldn’t even eat. – They don’t seem to understand. / – They’re shocked. (We don’t understand.) – What does she mean? / – They don’t understand. They don’t know what that means? I know. It means she can’t eat or drink. – That’s right. / – You don’t know what that means? – She can’t eat or drink? / – When people – Because I was heartbroken. / – go through breakups… She couldn’t eat or drink anything but alcohol. What are you talking about? – She drank on an empty stomach? / – She just drank. – It feels like you got shot. / – Right. You were heartbroken. – Jihye knows a lot about her. / – Indeed. I think Jihye will tell us a lot about Zyoung. – What matters is / – I’ll tell your secrets, too. – that they are / – “I’ll tell your secrets, too.” – happy together now. / – That’s what matters. I think they’re really meant to be. – She won’t let Zyoung speak. / – She has weaknesses, but her husband embraced her with love. She’s so lucky to have someone like him. – I see. / – Jihye, you don’t drink, do you? – I quit drinking. / – Oh, you quit drinking? – She really quit drinking. / – That’s right. – Did she drink a lot? / – I quit three years ago. – I started going to church / – I see. and doing missionary work. I don’t have the urge to drink now. – You haven’t drunk since then? / – She drank twice. – That’s not true. / – She’s getting back at her. – She rolled up her sleeves. / – I saw you have a sip. – You had a sip. / – No. How did you usually act when you were drunk? – I didn’t act weird. / – Zyoung, is that true? – She says she didn’t, but / – I didn’t. when she drank with a man, she acted like a daughter-in-law of a rich family. She would wear a beige dress and flat shoes. – “Waiter.” / – Really? – The waiter came. / – Okay. I guess her drink wasn’t cool enough. “Please make it cooler.” (She speaks like a high-class lady.) She speaks gracefully. – That’s an old expression. / – She speaks gracefully. People don’t use that expression these days. She uses many old expressions. “Please make it cooler.” She said it in such a graceful way. We called primary school differently in our time. – That’s… / – It was a long time ago. I didn’t have any work until last year. I had a break for about two years. – It was hard for her. / – She had been in a slump. Back then, I had no money. I’d used up all my savings. I sold everything I had because I had no money. I released an album last year, but it failed. – It was tough. / – I had an anxiety problem and even partial hair loss. – Oh, my. / – Did you? It’s true. She lost hair on this part. We cried a lot together. I thought that my career as a singer could be over. – She gave up. / – I was more like an internet user. Do you mean you posted comments like fans do? – Yes. / – What did you write? – She complimented me a lot. / – I complimented people. – Do you still do that? / – Sometimes. – Really? / – You posted a lot of comments? Recently, I commented on articles about Jang Seokhyun. He was one of my group members. What did you write? I wrote, “He’ll become really successful.” “He has great potential. I guarantee you.” – She’s nice. / – Can you comment on articles about me? I’ll do that when we become close friends. Please leave comments on our website, too. I’ll help the program get high viewer ratings. What kind of comments do you expect for today’s episode so far? – We need to boost the atmosphere. / – Right. In the beginning, the viewers are probably confused. “That’s a weird combination of guests.” – “Crush is funny.” / – So you think – “DinDin looks like a nice guy.” / – it’s time – to boost the atmosphere? / – Right. We need to liven up the mood with a dance performance. She sounds like an expert. We also need good chemistry. I kept cutting in to create good chemistry. – It wasn’t for your sake? / – I helped all of them. – It’s not to stand out? / – We all need to stand out. If I stand out, everyone would stand out. How about you become a variety show producer? There’s a live chat room for Happy Together that opens while our show airs. – I read all of it. / – I read the comments often, too. Jihye, what do you expect they comment right now? – Right now? / – Yes, what will they write about you? They’ll write “Jihye looks like a nice person.” – Right now? / – Yes, they’re typing now. – I think… / – That’s ridiculous. – “She’ll become popular again.” / – “I like her.” I think she means she’ll write it herself. – She’ll write the comment. / – I’m telling you, – they’ll write it. / – She’ll write it herself. – What if they say they hate you? / – I’m positive. – She’ll click the “Disagree” button. / – I respect it. I should take criticism and fix my mistakes, – so I can be a better person. / – She’s mature. I read a book titled “The Courage to Be Hated”. – Me, too. / – I read it, too. – Did you? / – I read it, too. – I read it, too. / – I read it because – I even took notes in my diary. / – the book says… – He seems excited. / – Good for you. – It says you shouldn’t try to meet… / – Look at him. Crush starts talking as we talk about a book. Was that the most impressive phrase? – I took notes. / – Can you say it again, please? – You shouldn’t try to meet… / – Others’ expectation. – You should live life for yourself. / – Be yourself. Crush spoke to you casually when you first met him. I was really upset. – I’m really sorry. / – I was so upset. – It’s not like that. / – DinDin does look young. – That’s true. / – Was it two years ago? – It was three years ago. / – Was it? – It was 2013. / – No, it was 2 years ago. – It was 2013. / – Excuse me. – You’re not chatting in your house. / – I’m sorry. Please continue. – I thought he was younger than me. / – Right. I spoke to him informally, and he looked really upset. When we met for the first time, he talked to me formally. After a few drinks, he forgot that I’m older than him. He talked to me informally again. “What’s up?” I was really baffled. I thought his recent fame made him rude, but I couldn’t complain because he was so famous. – I understand. / – He might speak ill of me. – Then, my career would end. / – I feel bad for him. – I was pitiful. / – Why are you making me look bad? – Crush did wrong. / – I felt upset. I left and called Loco on my way home. I said, “Crush is out of his mind.” “He spoke casually. He looked down on me.” It seems DinDin tends to make things complicated. Exactly. He’s talking like I committed a crime. He almost started a bad rumor about Crush. I remember what happened. I wasn’t drunk at all. He exaggerated a lot. – Right? / – This is how you talk on a variety show. That’s ridiculous. That way of speaking can damage others’ reputations. – I wasn’t even… / – That was hilarious. It’s true that you talked to him informally, right? – I apologized to him right away. / – I see. – When did you apologize? / – Right away. Do it now. I don’t remember getting an apology. Why would you make him apologize to you again? It hurt my feelings so much. – I see. / – It’s because you look young. Loco, why does your fan club name baffle you? My fan club name is “Locochu”. – “Locochu”? / – “Chu” as in a kiss. It sounds like… – It’s “Loco-Chu.” / – That’s not what it means. – My fan club name is… / – What is it? It’s “Crush Bomb”. – “Crush Bomb”? / – It sounds like a swear word. – Oh, “Crush Bomb”? / – “Crush Bomb”. – You should pronounce it carefully. / – Yes. – I have a fan club, too. / – As Loco just said, people sometimes misunderstand his fan club name. – “Locochu.” / – It’s actually a pretty name. – “Locochu.” / – Don’t pronounce it that way. You need to say the two words separately. When I ask my agent if many fans came, he says “Yes, many of the Cochus are here.” I call my fans “Sh-Bombs”. – I see. / – That’s interesting. I heard of his fan club name before his concert. The fans were shouting, “Locochu!” I wondered how great he is. “Why are these people shouting that word?” – That’s not what it means. / – I didn’t know. – Please don’t say that. / – People wouldn’t do that. – In a public place? / – They wouldn’t think that way. – I was really impressed. / – That’s ridiculous. I thought, “He’s the true hip hop artist.” – His fans wouldn’t think that way. / – Exactly. – Do you have a fan club, DinDin? / – Yes, I do. – What’s the name of it? / – What is it? It’s “Fun Fun DinDin”. “Fun Fun DinDin”? That’s cute. That’s a good name. You have a good sense of humor. Their fan club names suit their images. – Indeed. / – They suit their personalities. – Isn’t it fun? / – Yes. As I became a rising star recently… He got criticized a lot. – I also… / – I’m worried about him. Jihye will help you improve your reputation. – I trust her. / – She’ll post good comments. – Consult with her. / – I think now is the timing. I have a moving story about Saeho. – Please tell us. / – What is it? He and I appeared on the same show three days ago. – We had a drink after that. / – Okay. You know that he’s a rising star now. He said, “Hey, DinDin, how old are you?” I said, “I’m 26 years old.” He took out his wallet and gave me some pocket money. That’s what only A-list stars do. So I said, – “You don’t have to do this.” / – That’s not… – That’s not a moving story. / – I refused it. It’s weird that he gave DinDin pocket money. I said, “Saeho, I can’t take this.” He insisted on giving me the money. I said, “It’s okay. I earn enough money myself.” He said, “Tell this story on Happy Together.” (He wanted DinDin to tell a good story about him.) – “Please speak well of me.” / – You can be a comedian. – There are two sides to every story. / – No way. – He told the story from his viewpoint. / – Goodbye. Please don’t say that. I think DinDin exaggerated to make a funny story. What kind of comments will there be at this point? (“Comments of the Day”) – Comments? / – On the internet. (“With the Internet Comment Expert”) – Saeho is a little too proud now. / – Right. There might be some comments criticizing that. But if he does better from now on some people will give counter-arguments. They’ll compliment Saeho. You should keep it up. Let me explain. We were having a drink together. Suddenly, DinDin left the table. I was wondering where he went. He came back with a hangover cure. I was grateful. I gave him some money because I wanted to pay for it. I told him it’d be enough for the taxi fare. That’s a lie. – Then, DinDin said, / – Why did you ask my age, then? “Do you mind if I tell this story on Happy Together?” – I told him not to do it. / – He just backstabbed me. – How could you say that? / – What’s the truth? – How dare you? / – You make me look like a bad person. – This is chaos. / – Exactly. Don’t you remember what you said? “Tell this story on TV shows for me.” I complimented Myungsoo a lot on that day. It’s true he gave me the money, but… I wouldn’t pay anyone to speak well of me. Saeho, when DinDin asked us if he could tell this story about you before the shooting, – you told him not to do that. / – That’s right. What did you say when he started telling the story? You said, “What is it?” (Ready, action.) (Saeho gave the money to DinDin with an intention.) – You shouldn’t do that. / – Hang on. – It’s not like that. / – Hang on. (The rising star is falling.) – That’s not true. / – I heard you say that. That’s not true! – We had a great time with you. Goodbye. / – No. – Goodbye. We had a good time with you. / – Please. I’ll be back as a newcomer in the next episode. (The story of Saeho made everyone laugh.) – It was a very good story. / – Right. – It wasn’t a good story. / – I have a story, too. – I have a story about him, too. / – Really? Is it a moving story? – Yes. Four years ago, / – Please go ahead. – Four years ago? / – I saw him on the street in Nonhyeon-dong – where there are a lot of cart bars. / – Did you? He and Nam Changhee were fighting over 30 dollars. – That’s embarrassing. / – Goodbye, Saeho. What were they fighting about? I just heard them talk about 30 dollars. – I passed them by quickly. / – What was the problem? Probably, this is what happened. Changhee said he wouldn’t eat a dish I ordered. – So he told me / – That’s ridiculous. that he wouldn’t pay for what he didn’t eat. Crush, do you have a story about him? – No. I really like Saeho. / – Make up a story, then. I watched the video clip of the day he joined the army. – Oh, right. / – The car left – without you. / – He said the story on this program. That part was aired. – I watch it whenever I feel down. / – Really? (It energizes my life.) (Saeho and Kim Raewon joined the army together.) A while later, Raewon whom Saeho was waiting for finally arrived at the training camp. After he said goodbye to his fans, he got in the car to enter the training camp. Right then, something unexpected happened. Saeho hadn’t gotten in the car, but the car left without him. Saeho had to run to the training camp. I have some video clips I watch when I feel down, too. One is the clip of Jihye’s poor acting performance. – I remember that. / – What’s that? – That’s hilarious. / – Exactly. – It’s legendary. / – Hyeongyeong, do you know? Yes. I’ve watched it. – Everyone has watched it. / – It’s really funny. I thought it was a sitcom, – but it seemed serious. / – It’s a serious film. – It’s a serious one. / – It’s a film. – It’s an independent film. / – It’s “Killing Time”. (“Killing Time”) Tell us about this scene. This is the scene where I just saw my boyfriend cheating on me. He’s my loved one in the film. – Look at her. / – Minseok. (Is she happy?) – I’m sorry. / – It’s all a misunderstanding. (Or is she sad?) – It’s a very sad scene. / – What was your intention? – Are you happy to see him cheating? / – She’s crying. It’s not supposed to be funny. It’s a serious scene. – You’d understand if you watch… / – Is she happy? No. How can you think that way? That’s one of the top three terrible acting. (These are the top three terrible acting.) (First is Jang Suwon acting like a robot.) (Second is Kang Minkyung screaming like a pterosaur.) (She screams.) (She cries like a pterosaur.) (This scene is as funny as those two.) – I’m sorry. / – It’s all a misunderstanding. (Third is Jihye looking like a Hahoe mask.) – Didn’t the film crew watch it together? / – We did. I even attended the film festival in Bucheon. – How was the review of the film? / – I went there. – How was the review? / – It was positive. The film was shown in cinemas. – How was the result? / – Many people watched it. What’s more shocking is that Jihye practiced – for two years for the film. / – Really? My teacher would be very disappointed to hear this. I hear that Chae Jungan and Nana have been learning from my teacher. – I’m the best student of my teacher. / – Nana got – rave reviews. / – Nana is good at acting. – She’s really good. / – Indeed. – DinDin, you’re from a rich family. / – Is that true? – I’ll be honest with you. / – Okay. My father’s business once failed. After I was born, the business bounced back. My parents say that I brought them good fortune. – It’s a true story. / – How did it bounce back? – Before I was born… / – He’s amazing. – DinDin is so funny. / – The business failed. It couldn’t have bounced back because you were born. – His parents might think that way. / – That’s right. We were well off even during the IMF Crisis. – We were well off. / – What does your father do? He runs a railroad business. His business was very successful. But one day, he lost a lot of money because of someone he was working with. The man went to prison. – Why would he tell that? / – And then… – You don’t have to tell everything. / – He got out. He asked my dad for help again. My dad helped him again, but he went to prison again. When the debtor is in prison, you can’t get money back. – That’s right. / – So my father is having a hard time. Someone did the same thing to my dad. They really shouldn’t do that. – You’re not in a bar. / – It happened to my dad, too. – He used to run a sausage business. / – That’s why… – A sausage business? / – He got swindled, too. – My dad drinks every day. / – I’ll get my revenge. – My dad drinks a lot, too. / – He wants to revenge. I need to explain myself. My father’s business isn’t going well, but people around him don’t believe it saying “I hear you’re very rich.” So he has no choice but to treat his friends to a meal. – I see. / – He grumbles when he gets home. He said, “Why did you say that on TV?” – “It’s so hard.” / – Your family isn’t well off now? – That’s why I work so hard. / – On the TV program, he said he used his mother’s credit card. It made people think his parents are very rich. – That’s right. / – Cheer up, Dad. (Cheer up, Dad.) – Cheer up, Dad. / – Loco, how about you? – I live with my mother. / – I see. Well, we’re doing fine. – I don’t… / – Loco, doesn’t your mother brag about you a lot? Yes. When she hears my song on the street, she goes inside the store where my music is played. She pretends to browse in the store. Then, she says, “This is my son’s song.” (This is my son’s song.) – She must be proud of him. / – Of course. – Exactly. / – That’s so cool. – Right. / – My mother was very excited that I’d be on this show. – I see. / – I don’t appear on TV shows often. I got an offer to appear on “King of Mask Singer”. Since I wasn’t confident in singing, I declined the offer. – She was very upset. / – She wanted to see you on TV. That’s right. When I was invited to this program, I asked my mother what she thought. She just said, “Do as you please.” – She’s adorable. / – When I told her that I’ll be on the show, she said “Good for you.” (She made a big smile.) – She’s adorable. / – She must’ve been happy. There are certain TV shows that people – in his mother’s age watch often. / – That’s right. She said she was glad and said “What night snack will you cook on the show?” She hasn’t watched our program for a long time. – It ended half a year ago. / – No. It’s been – almost two years now. / – We should try harder. – That’s right. / – Let’s try harder. – We need to win her heart. / – My mother – Yes. / – looks a lot like me. – She’s always / – That’s exactly how she looks. worried she might not damage my reputation. – She never says she’s my mother. / – Excuse me. You said she’s worried she might not damage your image. – What does that mean? / – Does she disgrace you? – She’s worried she might disgrace him. / – Right. That’s right. So she never says she’s my mother. – She avoids a crowded street. / – I have a story. This was even before Myungsoo got married. I saw a luxurious car stopping in front of the MBC building. – The car stopped. / – We ran into each other. That’s right. – Myungsoo’s mother… / – She was wearing a hanbok. Yes. She was wearing a hanbok. She got out of the back seat of the car. I went up to her to greet her. I asked her if she was appearing on a TV show. She said she was there to have a meal in the cafeteria in the TV station wearing a hanbok. – She rode in a luxurious car, too. / – Exactly. – Like a celebrity. / – It was a national holiday. – Meals were free for people in hanbok. / – Really? – Is that true? / – That’s why she wore a hanbok. I was surprised. – That’s so funny. / – She used to live in an apartment near the TV station. We lived right across the TV station. – I’ve always envied DinDin. / – Why? He always used his mother’s credit card. – I envy him, too. / – Right? He’s backstabbing me again. What’s wrong with you? – My family isn’t well off. / – I see. – When I was… / – But he looks so rich. – Exactly. He looks rich. / – Thank you. – He looks like / – He looks like a rich boy. – he’s from a millionaire family. / – That’s right. He looks like he belongs to the upper class. After I won on “Show Me the Money”, I thought everything would work out from then. I wanted to be good to my parents, but my agency was a newly established company. They said they couldn’t support me much, so I told them I’ll pay the cancellation fee and leave. – Really? / – However, the cancellation fee was 200,000 dollars. Until that time, I had never earned more than 1,000 dollars per month. It was a difficult time. I didn’t know what to do. That’s when I got introduced to Jay Park. He owns AOMG. Gray introduced me to him and Jay said he would pay it off. (I’ll pay it off.) He told me he wanted me to join him in his new company. He let me borrow the money. The first song I produced in AOMG was “Hold Me Tight”. – It was a big hit. / -That’s amazing. – He paid it off right there. / – Yes. – You overcame it all. / – You paid everything off? Yes. He paid everything off. – He probably earned more than the money. / – I agree. Actually, when he was going through those times, he asked me for advice. I encouraged him to sign with Jay’s agency right away. I told him that it was a great chance for him. So he went to AOMG and when I called him after his new song came out, but he didn’t answer. – You changed. / – That was because even if I became successful, I wanted to work harder – How modest. / – and produce more music for my fans. But whenever DinDin calls me, it’s for clubbing, drinking or hitting on women. He’s such a liar. – It’s true. / – Who’s a liar? (He’s on Loco’s side.) I was always with you when I went clubbing. What did I do? Clubbing is not a bad thing. We go clubbing, too. We go there to listen to music and dance. You can listen to music with your headphones on. You have to see how other people react. – Really? / – You have to see what kind of music – people like. / – You have to see what they like. We happened to talk about our dads as well. – That’s right. / – Let’s talk about it more. Jihye said that her dad ran a sausage business. – I never knew. / – He got defrauded, – He closed down. / – so I bought him a taxi. – I took out some private loan. / – It was recent. I’m appearing in variety shows in order to pay it off. – Is he a taxi driver now? / – She’s so sweet. Yes. He takes a day off after two working days. Ever since the fraud case, he’s been drinking all day. He probably just loves drinking. – Yes. He likes to drink. / – On his days off, right? By the way, you might also have plans to get married. Do your parents have requirements for a son-in-law? They aren’t like that. They’d like the one I love. That’s what they say. You probably have an ideal type of man. I’m not picky at all. I used to like businessmen and CEOs. – Really? / – You liked wealthy men. I wanted to live in Cheongdam-dong with a CEO husband. – With a chauffeur? / – I wanted to be well off. – I wanted to be well off. / – Like putting your – husband’s tie in the morning? / – Yes, that was it. I’d call out for a housekeeper like this. (Housekeeper!) (Everybody once dreams of a life from dramas.) You have a great tone of voice. – She’d cook for me. / – You watched too many dramas. Madame, what time would you be going to the mall? – Get ready by 10 a.m. / – Yes, Ma’am. That was what I dreamed of, – but I’m more modest now. / – I see. – You came to a realization. / – I realized it. That’s not important at all. – Right. / – I need to live my life to the fullest. I’m not picky any more. I don’t need any of that now. You need to emphasize those points. – Don’t just talk about your ideal type. / – So I gave up my Gangnam dream and moved in with my parents. I’ve heard of the American dream but not that. No, during our time, the Orange Tribe was the best. – I had a Gangnam dream, too. / – Right? – Do you know the Orange Tribe? / – The Orange Tribe? – You know, right? / – There were several names. (It’s an old story for these youngsters.) – They lived in Gangnam. / – I had similar dreams. There were people who had fantasies like me so I lived in Gangnam for a while but I had to move. I paid off my debts and moved in to my parents’ house. Then I bought a new house in Oksu-dong. – Good job. / – Did you buy it or lend it? – I bought it. / – How big is it? It’s 66.11m² but it’s a new – apartment complex with 2,000 flats. / – That’s a lot. It’s also near a subway station. – Does it have a good view? / – It’s amazing. The view is great. My apartment is on the 12th floor. – My apartment number is 1200. / – That’s so specific. I live right below the penthouse. When will you move in? – Just below the penthouse? / – I’ll move in November. – You have a house. / – Did you get a mortgage? – I did. How could I afford without it? / – I see. – What’s mortgage? / – I also have a car. I cleared up my situation. You did it within a year. They are not understanding the word, mortgage. – It’s a loan. / – It’s a lease. – Congratulations. / – Thank you. – You only need a husband now. / – Yes. Are there any qualifications for your husband? I have just one. I don’t want him to drink or smoke. I also want him to be sound and reserved. – You want a quiet person. / – You also mentioned – something else to our staff. / – There was one more. If possible, I want somebody with a full-time job. (I want somebody with a full-time job.) Rather than a freelancer, right? – I’m suggesting it carefully / – It’s stable. – since I’m a freelancer. / – She’s being careful. – I’m serious. / – That’s her ideal type. She’s being careful to be aware of other opinions. I don’t want people to think that I’m materialistic. – Those are her preferences. / – I want an ordinary person who has regular income like a public servant. – She knows it’s hard to be a freelancer. / – I see. – Let me give you an example. / – Okay. – He doesn’t smoke or drink / – That’s right. and he used to have a full-time job. He doesn’t work full-time now but has a regular income. – How’s Hyunmoo? / – What do you think about him? He’s also an educated man. – He’s pretty good. / – I used to think he was good, – Really? / – but since then, he had many girlfriends. – We know some, too. / – I’m a little conservative. – I’m a little conservative, / – I see. so I don’t consider men who have many histories. I’m a little conservative. But if the man is quiet and doesn’t drink or smoke, he’ll be boring. – I’ll make him laugh. / – That’s right. – I’ll entertain him. / – That sounds good. She doesn’t know what she’s talking about. – Why? / – Why? – He’ll be boring. / – It’s the worst – when your husband is quiet. / – I agree. – Why? / – Won’t you get sick of him in a few years? No, that’s not what I meant. When I was dating my husband, I liked how reserved he was. He knew the right things to say. – He would only say what’s necessary. / – He’s cool. But in reality, he’s completely different. He’s so talkative. Really? He talks a lot? – He’s so talkative. / – She knew it afterwards. Since we’re both celebrities, sometimes we get to spend time together all day. – That’s right. / – When there’s no work to do. I laugh all the time except when I go to sleep. – That’s great. / – It’s a good thing. – It is. / – It sounds like she’s gloating. – Yes. It’s a good thing. / – She likes it. – Rather than that… / – Rather than a quiet guy, talkative and expressive men are much better. Before you got married, you were on Happy Together and said that Seokwon was very considerate. She said that when her armpits got sweaty… – Right? / – That’s right. – You have such a good memory. / – You mentioned it. Her boyfriend wipes her armpits when they get sweaty. Your boyfriend wipes your armpits? She’ll say “Honey” and raise her arms. – That’s how considerate he was. / – I usually don’t sweat but there are only two places where I sweat. It’s the back of my knee and armpits. – Those are the folds. / – Your knees get sweaty? – You get sweaty behind your knees? / – I do. – It’s in the fold. / – If I sit like this, – They get sweaty. / – it starts dripping with sweat. – Is it that much? / – Yes, only on those two places. I don’t sweat anywhere else. – When it’s… / – After we finish the dance practice, she calls me over and puts her arm around me. (Jihye’s shoulders will get wet from it.) That was so bad. I can finally say it. – I hated it. / – Jihye hated it – when I put my arm around her. / – I didn’t like it. – I had no idea. / – I would go home and take a shower. – Her armpits are like a water park. / – That’s right. (It’s a natural water park.) She said it’s a water park. – Listen to her. / – It was. I can finally say it. By the way, do you have a girlfriend, DinDin? I really don’t have one. From what I heard, he used to have a French girlfriend. No, she was German. (He had a German girlfriend.) – He had a German girlfriend. / – When I was in Canada, I went to a school that never had a Korean student before. It was in a bad neighborhood. I had bad grades so I went abroad to study but who would pay so much money to go to a bad school? They were fascinated by seeing a Korean. They never had any international student. They might have wondered why you came for their school. There was a class for foreign students and this really pretty girl walked in. I couldn’t tell her nationality from her looks. She wasn’t Caucasian, European, Asian or South American. I was wondering. – You could ask. / – I summed up the courage to ask. – What did you say? / – I asked for her number. I said it in Korean style and she gave it to me. We talked and I asked where she was from and she said that she’s half-German and half-Korean. She was biracial. That’s when I knew 100 percent, that we’re meant-to-be. – What’s 100 percent? / – You’re too easy. I was 100 percent sure. We had a connection. – A connection? / – We had a link. – You had something in common. / – It was a medium. Then, I told her that I was Korean and she was amazed. I asked if she liked galbijjim and she said she did. It was the only thing I knew how to make. – So… / – Do you want to come over for galbijjim? – You went for it. / – I asked her if she liked it and she said she did. Her mom used to make it for her. I asked her if she missed her mom. So I invited her to my place. She’s German so she was so open. She actually came over. – And then? / So I made galbijjim. – You made it. / – I cleaned my house and gave my sister some money to go out and watch a movie. (Everything was well-prepared.) My sister went out and everything was ready. I got everything set up and I made her the galbijjim. She was surprised – Why? / – by how delicious it was. She said it was so good. Then, my sister came back and saw broken chairs. She’s like, “What’s going on?” – Why? / – What happened? We shouldn’t have drunken but I had wine at home so we had it. She was a German so she drank a lot. – She was German. / – But I was just a boy then so I passed out and woke up vomiting on my bed. – Oh, my goodness. / – How embarrassing. I was so drunk that I fell on the chair and it broke. So the girl lifted me up. She was taller than me. She also weighed more than me. So she lifted me up and brought me to the sofa. – She cleaned up and left a memo. / – What did it say? She left a memo to my sister and apologized. She’s a great kid. The important part is that she went back to Germany. (His girlfriend had to go back to Germany.) – Her dad found out we were dating. / – Did you cry? “Iris” was being aired back then and “Don’t Forget Me” was the soundtrack. – ♪ We loved ♪ / – That’s right. “We’re in different places under the same sky.” “Don’t forget me.” That’s how it goes. I was watching “Iris” and got addicted to the song. So I explained it to my girlfriend. She was in tears. That’s when “Don’t Forget Me” became my favorite song. I’d go to karaoke bars and concentrate on the emotion. I’d think about Germany and being under the same sky. – Who sang? / – How did you sing it? Show us. You lost contact with her after that, right? I practiced the song. ♪ We loved each other ♪ ♪ We’re now breaking up ♪ (We’re now breaking up) She went back so you ended the relationship? Yes, but when I earn a lot of money… Would you like to date her again? – I think I really liked her. / – Oh, dear. – That’s great. / – According to Crush, you’re with a different woman whenever you go clubbing. Me? – Yes. / – Who else could it be? It’s not you? Me? – Both of you. / – I saw DinDin, too. – This is suicide. / – Why? – I saw them, too. / – Explain it. – I saw them, too. / – What did you see? The fact that you saw him means that you were there. – That’s right. / – We hung out with each other. What a joke. Stop joking. That sounded like Ji Sangyeol. “What a joke.” It sounded good until the part about “Don’t Forget Me.” Three years ago, I saw DinDin entering the club… – He was with two women. / – As soon as he entered, What do you mean? I was escorting them. – That doesn’t sound right. / – He was with two ladies. As soon as he entered, he held the hand of the first woman he made eye contact with. Why would you hold the hand of a woman you don’t know? I would hold her hand and tell her to stop drinking. – I would send her home in a taxi. / – Look at him. My parents are watching. Why would you say that? That wasn’t nice. You’re the victim here. – But you… This guy’s funny. / – Is there more to it? If I say this, they’re in trouble. For songs like “Don’t Forget”, “Hold Me Tight” and “You Don’t Know”, I know who they sang them for. – They sang each for somebody? / – Yes, it changes. – Look at Loco. / – What are you saying? (He tries to keep a straight face.) Loco, why are your hands fidgeting? – Look at him. / – What do you mean you know who it is? – You’re talking nonsense. / – Loco got popular fast. That’s because he’s impulsive. He meets women easily and breaks up with them. – He moves fast. / – That’s how he made many songs. – Loco is fidgeting. / – It’s a surprise. He pretends to be nice… He looks like the type who would date for a long time. – My goodness. / – He’s that type. – He is. / – I usually date one person for a long time. Crush and Loco, you don’t look as energetic as before. – They’re far away from DinDin. / – Loco’s not focused. – Let’s sue him. / – You can’t lie. (Things get messy.) – You can’t lie. / – “Let’s sue him.” – “Let’s sue him.” / – You can’t lie on TV. Crush and Loco teamed up – with each other. / – I’m getting curious. They’ve got each other’s back. They don’t look too happy after the clubbing topic. Hyeongyeong prepared our theme song in rap. – We didn’t ask for it. / – I tried it. – I see. / – Really? – Give her your honest opinion. / – I made it. That’s amazing. (This is a hip hop rookie’s) (foolish attempt.) (What would it be like?) ♪ Watch Uhm Hyeongyeong on Happy Together Ho! ♪ ♪ You and I watch Happy Together Ho! ♪ This works with anybody’s name. ♪ Watch DinDin on Happy Together Ho! ♪ ♪ You and I watch Happy Together Ho! ♪ (You can’t help but dance along.) – It’s very original. / – It was good. Really? It’s something everybody can do. – “Ho” is the catch. / – That’s right. – You can do it with anything. / – What do you say? I was the producer for last year’s “Show Me the Money”. – It’s very original… / – How would you rate her? “Hyeongyeong will…” (Hyeongyeong is the lady of Happy Together.) (Would she enter the hip hop stage?) “not be able to join us.” (Say goodbye.) (That’s as far as she goes.) – You said it’s original. / – It’s weird if you go. – It’s original. / – People would criticize harshly. DinDin practiced some imitations of people for today. Let me start with G-Dragon. – He’s my brother. / – He’s my role model. – G-Dragon… / – He’s everybody’s brother. Are you close to him? No, I’m just a fan. You can call him a brother only when you know him personally. Call him by his full name. – I thought you were close to him. / – It’s like this. Fans call you, “Jaeseok!” – That’s how I call G-Dragon. / – I see. There’s a song by Big Bang called “If You”. Imagine a remix between “If You” and “Bang Bang Bang”. I’m going to imitate G-Dragon singing it. (This is a remix version by G-Dragon.) (I’m G-Dragon.) ♪ If you, If you, If you ♪ ♪ If it’s still not too late ♪ ♪ Can’t we take it easily ♪ (He’s not fazed.) ♪ If you, Bang Bang ♪ ♪ You ♪ ♪ Bang ♪ You look so entertained. You probably never get lonely. This is incredible. It doesn’t look like he’s doing it for other people. He’s just having fun with himself. – I’ll show you another one. / – What is it? It’s when G-Dragon danced to “Good Boy” in Tokyo Dome. – He looks good when he dances. / – He looks cool. – But he doesn’t try too hard. / – That’s right. – He doesn’t do it properly. / – But – he makes these facial expressions. / – He’s so good. When he dances, he bites his lower lip. He does. And he tilts his chin up. I see what you’re saying. I get it. He gazes down. I can’t look at him straight. (Zyoung thinks it’s too much.) He looks cool. He sits like this. (He moves onto the next pose.) He does that. – He walks and looks back like this. / – I agree. – He does this. / – I know. – When he dances… / – The music is on. – It’s “Good Boy.” / – It’s starting. (He starts dancing.) (He looks silly.) – Is this how he does it? / – That’s right. (He keeps dancing.) Hold on. You’re a crook. – What’s wrong? / – Hey. – This is right. / – You just can’t dance. No, this is me copying G-Dragon. (This is the original choreography.) (G-Dragon’s doing it right.) – What’s he doing? / – He can’t dance. What’s he doing? What’s that? If that was G-Dragon, he wouldn’t be popular. He looks at the audience like this. – Then, he turns around / – I get you. and looks over to check if Taeyang is fine. It’s your part. (I’m Din-Dragon.) That part was good. – It’s so similar. / – Zyoung says that if that was G-Dragon, he wouldn’t be popular today. (If G-Dragon dances like DinDin, he wouldn’t survive.) That’s a great quote. I know what he’s trying to do. I get the idea. If you like G-Dragon, you should send him a message. – I like him so much. / – Would you meet him? I was really envious of Yoo Byungjae when he did, “Loser, Loner, It’s just one person”. – G-Dragon posted this on social media. / – Right. That’s before Byungjae signed the contract. After I watched that, it became my goal. My goal is to put my video on G-Dragon’s social media. (My video on G-dragon’s social media) – What a goal. / – That’s my goal this year. So I never did this dance anywhere else. I was going to show it off at the right place. – That was Happy Together. / – I saved it for today. I am 100 percent sure G-Dragon won’t post this. – G-Dragon is very objective. / – He is. – He won’t post this. / – I think so. Do you know G-Dragon, Loco? In 2012, I performed on Mnet Asian Music Awards. That’s right. I went to the after-party. I get really nervous in front of celebrities. I’m nervous right now, too. I went and the scene was like this. Singers would sing on a small stage, and Song Joongki and Song Seungheon were there. If you turn, you’d see Han Gain and Choi Jiwoo. – What about G-Dragon? / – He was there, too. I didn’t know anybody there so I just drank. When I drink, – I black out pretty fast. / – Oh, my. I was drinking and passed out again. When I woke up, I was in a hotel. – Seriously? / – My goodness. – My head was bleeding / – Oh, really? and when I turned on my phone, there was a picture of me and G-Dragon. This is a thriller. I have something, too. On the new year’s day, there was this party. I woke up the next day and I found a picture with G-Dragon in my phone. Why do you pass out and take pictures with G-Dragon? I woke up and went to the airport. People said that I danced with Jung Woosung. But you didn’t remember? I didn’t remember anything. I also received a video. It was a video of Psy’s performance. Psy was doing the Horse Dance next to me. (Psy was doing the Horse Dance next to Loco.) – That’s really funny. / – My goodness. He couldn’t remember it. I am usually very introverted. Did you get to know G-Dragon after that? I say hello to him. I said hello recently, and G-Dragon did this. – Didn’t he do this? / – No. He did this. – What does this mean? / – It means, “You are okay.” He does this to someone he doesn’t really know. That’s interesting. – I know G-Dragon’s phone number. / – What? – Really? / – You do? The three of them are like middle schoolers. – You are incredible. / – They are jealous. Crush has been to the YG Entertainment building. – Really? / – He listens to music with their artists. – I will give you a number. / – What are you saying? What are you saying? Is there an A-list celebrity you know well? Who is it? – Myungsoo. / – I’ll lose G-Dragon because of you. (I’ll lose G-Dragon because of you.) Who is your role model? (Mine is G-Dragon. Who’s your role model?) I don’t have a role model. I barely scrape by. (I barely scrape by.) I’m too old to have a role model. – Everyone is younger than me. / – He doesn’t have one. He doesn’t have a celebrity role model. I can’t have a role model younger than me. It’s hard to find a role model since he’s almost 50. It would be weird if he said, “It’s G-Dragon.” People who are older than me are in nursing homes. I can’t have them as role models. What comments are we getting in the chat room? DinDin is on the rise. “DinDin is doing well.” “He is an attention-grabber.” I came to notice that you use old-fashioned expressions. “An attention-grabber” is rarely used these days. He will make it big. I can’t believe these comments are from a chat room. “An attention-grabber.” I know new expressions, too. When do I get to send a video message to G-Dragon? Go ahead. Hello. I’m DinDin. I really like you. Whenever I am struggling in life, I watch videos of your performances. I look at everything you post on social media. It’s not my goal to work on a song with you. – All I want is for him to say hi to me. / – Really? – I want to say hello like this. / – He is a big fan. I see. G-Dragon, let’s meet up. Bang. “Bang.” (I hope my video gets posted on G-Dragon’s account.) I heard that – Crush has a special talent. / – Really? – You will imitate someone’s voice. / – I don’t know if it will sound similar. We will be the judge. – She became the judge. / – She wears the right outfit. This is so much fun. I will imitate Bobby Kim. He’s so good that he could appear on “Hidden Singer”. – Really? / – You must be good at it. – Hyunmoo will judge his talent. / – Right. ♪ A thing called love ♪ (Bobby Kim’s voice fills the studio.) ♪ When I stand before that thing ♪ My goodness. ♪ I am nothing but a beggar ♪ – That was nice. / – He sounded similar. Since his vocal cords are young, it was a bit different from Bobby Kim’s current voice. – To be honest it wasn’t that similar. / – Yes. It was. – It was similar. / – It really wasn’t. – I can imitate Zyoung to that level. / – Try it. I can imitate Zyoung. – It wasn’t similar, right? / – It wasn’t. I can imitate Zyoung to that level. – I will imitate Zyoung. / – It was all right. – I will imitate Zyoung. / – It was similar. – Crush’s voice sounded similar. / – That’s right. That was my first time imitating someone’s voice. – He was nervous. / – I was nervous. – Are you usually better? / – If I put my mind into it, I’m like… like… It’s incredible. Show us. I will imitate Simon Dominic. – Simon Dominic. / – That’s good. Let Jihye imitate me first. – Wait a minute. / – Do it later. – You can imitate Zyoung later. / – Okay. Are you going to rap? This is how Simon Dominic talks to me. Hyoseop. Act like a big fish. (He imitated the key characteristics.) Act like a big fish. That was great. “Act like a big fish.” In what situation did he say that to you? Ever since we first met… “Hyoseop, act like a big fish.” He touched my face like this. Simon Dominic has a cool voice. Loco, stop drinking. “Act like a big fish.” That was similar. We will now hear – Jihye’s imitation. / – I didn’t prepare it. – I only said I can do it to his level. / – Go ahead. Only the key parts sound the same. – The beginning won’t sound similar. / – Let’s hear it. ♪ You are the only one I love ♪ ♪ I cannot let you go ♪ ♪ Please change your mind ♪ ♪ I beg of you ♪ Don’t sing such an old song. I have never heard that song. – It’s a song from 1999. / – I don’t know the song. – This is my best. / – They don’t know the song. – I was seven years old. / – We know the song. – Didn’t I do a good job? / – My goodness. – We know the song. / – That’s right. Watching them gave me confidence. – I will imitate Crush. / – Crush? Really? Give it a go. ♪ I haven’t opened the drawer in a while ♪ (I haven’t opened the drawer in a while) – That was similar. / – That sounded the same. – That was similar. / – Give us the original version. ♪ I haven’t opened the drawer in a while ♪ ♪ I haven’t opened the drawer in a while ♪ (He pronounces “drawer” in a funny way.) My goodness. (The difference lies in pronunciation.) – That’s the key. / – I don’t mispronounce anymore. I fixed my teeth. I don’t mispronounce anymore. Did you fix your teeth? (He admitted that he’d gotten plastic surgery.) – These men are funny. / – Seriously. – They are hilarious. / – Loco has another one. – We can hear it later. / – It’s Kim Jinpyo. Kim Jinpyo. – She is excited by three male guests. / – Of course. You should have cheered for Jihye. – It wasn’t similar. / – She’s strict to me. – Wasn’t I similar? / – You will be eliminated quickly. – Give us another one. / – I will imitate Kim Jinpyo. Kim Jinpyo. The winner gets a dynamic hatchbag. (It’s a familiar comment.) – Try, “Show Me the Money.” / – My goodness. The winner gets a dynamic hatchbag. The winner gets a dynamic hatchbag. Give us a longer sentence. “Show Me the Money”, season… The winner gets a dynamic hatchbag. – That was similar. / – I can imitate Choi Hongman. – Saeho is good at it. / – Try it. Try it. They are the treasure box of voice imitations. (They open the treasure box.) Hello. I’m Choi Hongman. (Zyoung bursts out laughing while Jihye is serious.) (It’s a bit lacking.) – I can’t hear anything. / – I will try it. Hongman called Saeho one time, – and I was there. / – Really? He was angry because of Saeho kept imitating him. – This really happened. / – Really? – I was there when he called. / – Was he angry? Saeho imitated him when he picked up the phone. “Hello. I’m Choi Hongman.” – That was good. / – Hongman said, “Don’t do that.” – “For goodness’ sake.” / – He has my respect. – That was great. / – He did a good job. That was the best voice imitation. “What?” “I said, I am going to kill you.” He said, “I am going to kill you.” I apologize, Hongman. That was great. Bang, bang, bang. That really happened. – Being with friends is good. / – Look at Jihye. She is nervous because they did a great job. I can imitate Yuju of GFriend. – I can imitate Yuju of GFriend. / – Don’t do that. – Let’s hear it. / – They did many voice imitations. They got their screen time. – What did Jihye say to you? / – Jihye said… I was enjoying Crush, DinDin and Loco’s voice imitations. Jihye whispered, “We need to do something, too.” – Don’t do that. / – Are you here to watch the show? You are here to work. – You need to work. / – Please calm down. My goodness. – Jihye became nervous. / – I have another one. What is it? He didn’t even listen. He keeps coming up with ideas. – I can imitate Shin Seunghun. / – Okay. – Here I go. / – That was sudden. ♪ I believe ♪ ♪ Even though you are not here ♪ I can imitate Yuju. You need to calm down. Let her imitate Yuju. He imitated a male singer. – Let’s hear her imitate a female singer. / – Okay. ♪ Na na na Navillera ♪ (It was disastrous.) – My goodness. / – That was just you. I don’t know the song. It’s “Navillera”. – Loco can do Sistar’s dance. / – Sistar’s dance. I’ve been waiting for this. – The dance goes like this. / – Yes. In the US, rappers do the dance – when they rap. / – Really? (This is the dance move.) I started doing the dance before Sistar. You started doing it before Sistar. Let’s see it. You would rap in a cool way. ♪ I trample on it ♪ ♪ I play rudely and you watch, listen and react ♪ ♪ I make you dance ♪ (He is the dancing rapper.) – How cute! / – This is the original dance. Your facial expression matters. You need to look happy. – Show us. / – ♪ You watch, listen and react ♪ What was that? (He is full of happiness.) (Loco is happy to dance with Sistar.) (She is thinking about another special talent.) Let me do something other than a voice imitation. I can lick my elbow. That came out of nowhere. – Really? / – This is like a circus. Let’s see it. – Try it. / – I can’t do this. – I can’t do it. / – Who can do it? I can’t reach my elbow. It won’t work. I will show you. – Please don’t turn it into a meme. / – Okay. – Did you know you would end up doing this? / – No. – You didn’t know. / – It has to be done. (The situation is forcing her to do that.) I am doing this because I need more screen time. – She needs screen time. / – That’s right. – You are determined to get screen time. / – I need it. – She works hard. / – Is this possible? – In three, two, one. / – You need a long tongue. (She succeeded easily.) – Did you see that? / – She has a long tongue. Does that talent help in real life? – What is it? / – Why are you rolling up your pants? – The back of my knee makes a sound. / – What sound? What is going on? (Watch his facial expression.) – My goodness. / – What a cute sound! – The sound is natural. / – Did you see that? – Her reaction is so different. / – How cute! (Watching Crush versus watching Jihye) – Everyone, calm down. / – My goodness. – This isn’t a talent show. / – I can’t do it. Why is he doing it? You are good at this. – Do you find it fascinating? / – Look. This is ridiculous. – What is he doing? / – I bet the viewers – would be rolling up their pants. / – Right. They would try to do it at home. My goodness. That was hilarious. This is a talent show. Jihye, what’s the Fish Dance? – Fish Dance? / – Jihye can do the Fish Dance. What is the Fish Dance? You need to show us more for screen time. Wasn’t my last talent enough? Will it get edited? Show us your Fish Dance. I released a song as a solo artist – called “Rocket Power.” / – I remember. It’s a bit of an embarrassing past for me. It needs to go away so that I can get married. – You should do it. / – It might help you get married. – The title of the song / – “Rocket Power”. sounds quite promising. No one has ever mentioned the song before. – I am curious about it. / – Let’s see the dance. It feels like she cares more about her screen time than getting married. I’m in trouble. (She will unleash her inner rocket power.) (She breaks the seal.) (Her body remembers the dance.) This is the Fish Dance. (She’s flapping her hands.) (This is the Fish Dance.) – This is the Fish Dance. / – That’s right. This is the Fish Dance. (We give you the fish that lives in a deep river.) Watch Happy Together with Jihye. (She moves across the current.) (The fish jumps out of the water.) (Jihye grabs it.) – This is the Fish Dance. / – My goodness. (She is happy that she caught a fish.) Are we on break? (The fish jumped out of water.) (She ends the dance by recharging her rocket power.) “Rocket Power”. (She succeeded in securing her screen time.) – Jihye. / – That was funny. Did you see this dance move? That was incredible. She motioned grabbing the fish. – She caught it. / – She caught the fish. That was hilarious. – That was nice. / – It will help you get married. – That’s enough, right? / – It was funny. – Good job. / – You should add a move. Catch the jumping fish and lick your elbow. – That would be great. / – Please try it. – Then make a fart sound. / – Let’s play the song. On top of that, add Loco’s dance to your routine. – Add Loco’s dance. / – It’s Sistar’s dance move. You can also add G-Dragon’s facial expression. While Jihye is dancing, I will do this. – There you go. / – It will be great. Don’t I look ridiculous? – No, you don’t. / – You look cute. I let my image go today. That’s right. “Rocket Power” will make it on music charts. “Rocket Power” will make it on music charts. (She dances for the success of “Rocket Power”.) (She launches the rocket of her talent.) (Rocket No. 1, Lee Jihye) (Rocket No. 2, Crush) (Rocket No. 3, Loco) (Rocket No. 4, DinDin) (Fly, “Rocket Power”!) (It’s the most fantastic collaboration.) Catch the fish. (She catches the fish) (and licks her elbow.) (He suddenly flinches.) (He was startled by Jihye’s enthusiasm.) (He becomes happy again.) (He’s trying his best.) (I am no longer Crush.) (I am G-Dragon.) (It’s an other-worldly performance.) (It will be a hit across the universe.) (This collaboration is a hit.) “Rocket Power” will make it on music charts. So many artists aided her. “Rocket Power” is the best. (Crush’s leg is still working hard.) As you can see, her posture changed. – She looks more relaxed. / – That’s right. The guest’s posture tells a lot about his or her standing in the program. – She has established herself. / – That’s right. She chose screen time over marriage. That’s right. She made the right choice. Long screen time will help her get married. While Jihye was in Sharp, she took a test to become a flight attendant. – Did you? / – Sharp was successful. – Sharp was very successful. / – I always thought that things might eventually take a turn down the road. I wondered how I would make a living then. That’s why I applied for a job at an airline. – What happened? / – Did you get in? I passed the first round and scored an interview. – Your resume was selected. / – That’s right. At the interview, I was asked, “What do you do in your free time?” I don’t lie, so… I said, “I get my makeup done at a salon.” “Then I have a drink and go to a karaoke.” My goodness. – My goodness. / – I was too honest. You were working as a member of Sharp. They asked me what I do in my free time. That’s what I do in my free time. – Most celebrities do those things. / – That’s right. They drink and go to karaokes. You shouldn’t have told them everything. I should have said, “I read and study English.” I was too honest. “I have a drink and go to a karaoke.” I never heard back from them afterwards. The opportunity passed. You are close friends with Chae Jungan. – We are good friends. / – She helps you financially? Last year, I had no money or a job. It can be hard for celebrities to talk about their financial difficulties on TV. Viewers need to have fun – when they watch the show. / – That’s right. If I say I wanted to die, viewers won’t be able to relate to the story. That’s why I try to be cheerful. However, my own situation made me understand what pushes people off the edge of a cliff. I told Jungan that I can’t support myself anymore. I had a half-lease on my apartment. I had bills to pay and make ends meet. I didn’t have enough for medical insurance and such. I had reached the rock bottom. So I told Jungan… (The memories make her tear up.) Don’t cry. (He imitates Hongman’s voice.) Don’t cry, Jihye. Don’t cry. (She tries to hold back her tears.) (She cannot ease the heartache.) – It must have been hard. / – It was – only a year and a half ago. / – I see. Back when she wasn’t on TV. Even the fellow celebrities didn’t know. – No one knew. / – She had taken a break from TV. We wondered how she was doing. What happened then? I really didn’t want to borrow money from friends. I only told Jungan about my situation. She said, “Why didn’t you tell me earlier?” She asked for my account number. She sent me 10,000 dollars the next day. I used the money for expenses and sold the house. She said that it made her sad to see me disheartened. Whenever I met her, she gave me her clothes and said, “Wear these.” About 40 percent of clothes I own is from her. She helped me in many ways. Zyoung helped me, too. Last year… (Gratitude makes her voice break.) Don’t cry. Last year, I had to find work as a singer. I wanted to sing. Jang Seokhyun struggled a lot, too. After Sharp disbanded, Seokhyun accumulated a debt of 700,000 dollars. Seokhyun and I decided to release an album together. However, the idea wasn’t well-received. People didn’t think Sharp was relevant anymore. Zyoung decided to help then. She met with the president of a record company and pleaded with tears. I’d only heard this afterwards. I found out later that she asked in tears to help me. She released the album under my agency. I talked to the president of my agency. I asked that they invest in them. Was the song successful? No. What was the name of the song? There is a story behind it. I struggled so much. On stage, I had an anxiety attack. As I was singing on stage, my breath was all over the place. I thought, “Was I always this terrible as a singer?” I was always confident of my singing skills. That’s why I am not embarrassed to act silly. I am not afraid of making a fool of myself. I was confident because I could sing well. Last year, I felt like I had lost that. While you received help from your friends, you worked hard yourself. Zyoung is pleased to see you do well on Happy Together. – That’s right. / – Your Fish Dance was the best. I really didn’t want to cry on the show. – I apologize. / – The Fish Dance might bring back your old songs. I am very happy. I apologize for crying. You can pay back your friends for their kindness. – That’s right. / – That’s right. To cheer for Jihye’s future endeavors, – give her a round of applause. / – Good luck. Good luck. Why don’t the three of you release an album? That’s a good idea. I actually intended to collaborate with them, but listening to them made me realize – that I lack in many ways. / – That’s right. You might think they would say, “That’s not true.” They’re just listening. (They won’t say a word.) They didn’t say, “That’s not true.” – They’re incredible. / – They are cold-hearted. They’re incredible. Even their facial expressions didn’t change. The two make a perfect team. Say something to DinDin. He’s a good friend. It’s okay. I’ll continue to work hard. Crush, please say something. – I’m really… / – It’s okay. – Finish the sentence. / – Finish the sentence. – You’re really what? / – What are you trying to say? – Finish the sentence. / – “I’m really…” He doesn’t want to give a promise he can’t keep. That must be it. I want to be responsible for my words. Crush wants to focus on his music first. DinDin, work hard on your own. I do work hard. I want to be a funny person. Since I like these people, I don’t want to ask for help. – You don’t want to burden them. / – I don’t want that. I want to be on their level first. – You asked for help about 15 times. / – It was a joke. You might get a call from G-Dragon. – G-Dragon? / – Yes. He might ask you to meet him. If I meet him, I will greet Loco and Crush like this. (I know G-Dragon personally.) Look at Crush’s face. That will never happen. I’m sorry. – They’re so funny. / – Work hard, DinDin. – They’re funny, right? / – They really are. – Do well in variety shows. / – He’ll say something. – What is it? / – Act like a big fish. (Act like a big fish.) – “Act like a big fish.” / – “Act like a big fish.” That’s all we have for Happy Together today. We’ll be back in the next episode. – Thank you. / – Thank you. (“Strange” by MASC)

    The Care Bears Movie – Nostalgia Critic
    Articles, Blog

    The Care Bears Movie – Nostalgia Critic

    August 19, 2019


    NC: I gotta tell you, my work’s not always easy. I mean, granted this is the greatest job in the world, but whenever somebody asks you, “What did you do at your job today?” and you had to answer “I watched Care Bears The Movie.” I die a little inside. Yeah, I die a little. How can anyone say that with any shred of dignity? How can anyone speak that with any pride? You can’t. Roll it. [Singing] Carol King: Care-a-lot is a place we all can go NC: Yes, the Care Bears were pretty big in their day: disgustingly cute, disgustingly nice, and disgustingly marketable. How could any child not get wrapped up in their disgustingness? So when this movie came out children roared with applause and parents cringed in fear knowing that they would have to sit through this technicolor vomit. Is it as bad as it looks? Well there’s only one way to find ou. Let’s take a look at *sigh* Care Bears The Movie. So, we start off with probably the whitest orphanage ever seen on film as our narrator named Mr. Cherrywood comes in. Mr. Cherrywood: Now off to sleep to dream of clowns and circuses, acrobats and jugglers. NC: He’s played by Mickey Rooney, former biggest star in the world, but now doing, well, Care Bears. He decides to tell the children a story before they go to sleep. Mr. Cherrywood: This is the story of two young children named Kim and Jason and how they were helped by a group of very special friends the Care Bears. NC: *shudders* I don’t like the face he made there. Mr. Cherrywood: The Care Bears. NC: *shudders* It’s the kind of face that says “I touched half of these children, and I’m okay with that.” Mr. Cherrywood: The Care Bears live in a magic place called… Care-a-lot. NC: So, as the credits roll we get our opening song called Care-a-lot sung by Carol King. Isn’t that sad? and is it me or does she sound totally uninterested in singing this? [Singing] Care-a-lot is a place you’d like to be riding on a cloud. Care-a-lot: It’s a rainbow fantasy for laughing out loud. NC *imitating singer*: Care-a-lot is paying for my new car So might as well do it. [normal] On top of that this song is just shit. I mean listen to these lyrics: “Care-a-lot, carousels playing music in your mind, for dancing and singing. Sometimes you feel so glad, sometimes you feel blue, trust your feelings it’s not bad. Feelings are just you.” What does that even mean? “Feelings are just you,” Oh that’s good to know. I thought was Hershel the feeling fairy. What are they talking about? By the way, it’s probably my perverted mind but what does it look like these two are doing? This bear looks way too happy about what this bear is doing. I think that car is just a cover. So our story begins when they spot two children who, you guessed it, stopped caring. obvious statement is obvious Friend Bear: Hi! I’m Friend Bear and this is Secret Bear. We’re Care Bears. Jason: What do you want? Friend Bear: Only to be your friends. NC: Actually, I always wondered what counted as “caring.” I mean, if I’m ordering a pizza with a friend is it like: NC 1: Hey, what kind of toppings you want? NC 2: Oh, I don’t care. No! No! Wait I didn’t mean that–[sparkly noise] Ugh… Offscreen Care Bear: Hi, we’re the Care Bears and everybody has to care about something– [Gunshots] [Screaming] Friend Bear: Everyone needs friends Jason, even you and Kim. Kim: We’re not your friends. Jason: How do you know our names? NC: Really? That’s your biggest question right now. I mean granted that’s a legit query, but that should be, like question number five. Friend Bear: We know a lot of things about you. Kim reads a lot of books and wants to be a nurse when she grows up and Jason you want to be a jet pilot. Jason: Yeah, how did you know that? Friend Bear: Friends are supposed to know about each other’s hopes and dreams. memes NC: Friends, stalkers, it’s all good! So, while they try to comfort the two kids, their main leader, named Tenderheart, goes to check on another kid named Nicolas. that is just poor Mr. Cherrywood: Nicolas was a magician’s helper. He had never had a friend in his life. Magician: Hey, close the door! Nicolas: Woah! Woah! KACRASH!!! NC Imitating Magician: Ohh, this is why you’ve never had a friend in your life. Nicolas: I didn’t mean it. Magician: I bought that trunk thinking maybe there’s some junk in it that I can use in my magic act. Now half of it’s broken! NC imitating magician: Don’t make me tell your parents who may, or may not exist, and I may, or may not be keeping you from! NC: but Nicolas comes across a secret magic book. The Spirit: Nicolas… I am a spirit Nicolas Umm…Bullshit!! your friend. NC: Unfortunately, it’s a book that seems to possess unnatural evil powers. The Spirit: This is your chance to show that you are a greater magician than he. They love him for his magic. They’ll love you for yours. PERVERT!!! Bruce Campbell: It was never meant for the world of the living. NC: While that’s going on, though the Care Bears are working on their latest invention: a teleporter. because SCIENCE!!! Yes, apparently there’s groundbreaking scientific technology in Care-a-lot as long as the buttons look like Lucky Charms marshmallows. But it accidentally beams the two children up when it wasn’t supposed to. Jason: Where are we? Care Bears: We’re the Care Bears! Kim and Jason: …more friends? NC: *laughs* I like these kids. They have all the right reactions. So, while they trying to get the teleporter to work they show the kids around Care-a-lot via a god-awful song. sequence Singer: Nobody cares like a bear. NC: But fuck that shit. I want to see that evil book again. The Spirit: He’ll be in a deep sleep only long enough for you to take over his magic show. Nicolas: But, but, I couldn’t! The Spirit: Yes, you can. You must. NC: So this genuinely creepy character that appears is simply known as “The Spirit.” and while, not flat-out scary there is something very threatening about her. Maybe it’s her voice. Maybe it’s the fact that there’s just a face in a book, but there’s something that’s just a little unsettling. The Spirit: There are dozens of children out there waiting to see your magic. NC: in fact. I don’t want to watch her anymore. I’m going to fast forward past her parts. [Spirit growls] WHAT THE WHAT!?!?! NC: Dah! Okay! Okay! I love your scenes! I love your scenes! JESUS!!! [Spirit laughs] NC: I haven’t seen a book so in touch with evils since Twilight. Tenderheart: Nicholas stop! This isn’t the way to make friends The Spirit: Where was he when you needed him? Tenderheart: What matters– NC: *laughs* I just love Nicholas’ face here. As if to say: “Wow, I really didn’t think I was gonna see this today; a talking bear speaking with an evil face in a book. Thank God It’s at least Friday.” Tenderheart: Woah! NC: So she locks Tenderheart in a cage and convinces Nicholas to start his own magic show. Tenderheart: Magic isn’t the answer Nicholas. Your feelings can help you find the true answer. NC: Yes, just listen to the magic talking bear. because ANYONE would take a giant talking teddy bear seriously… So Tenderheart breaks his way out as Nicholas’ magic show doesn’t go as well as he planned. Nicolas: Make them stop laughing. The Spirit: Only you can do that. Nicolas: Zimma, zot, Coz-orkney! and a Bibbity Bobbity Boo [Thunderclap] NC: Oh no. Now he’s turned them into Youtube commenters. The Spirit: This is only the beginning. NC: So, Nicholas and his evil book start turning everybody in the world into jerks. Because of this Care-a-lot starts to crumble. (apparently) Funshine Bear: The Caring Meter dropped two whole points! [Gasps] NC: We’re reaching Jersey levels. Jersey levels! So Kim and Jason decide to join the Care Bears in their mission to stop The Spirit. Tenderheart: Hold on to this for me Jason. Don’t lose it. It’s very important. NC: Then why don’t you hold on to it? Well, anyway, they try teleporting them to Earth, but the earthquake destroys the teleporter in the process. Grumpy Bear: They never made it to Earth. Other Care Bear: What do you mean? Where are they? lost in space? Grumpy Bear: They’re lost somewhere between here and Earth. NC: Yeah, um what exactly is the cosmology for Care-a-lot anyway? I thought was in the clouds. Now it’s in a different dimension? I mean where are they expected to end up? Grumpy Bear: They’re lost somewhere between here and Earth. Meanwhile in no where… NC: So, they decided to take a river down to Earth– That’s right. There’s a river in the clouds now. —in the hope that this will somehow cross dimensions. I don’t know here’s how they explain it: Mr. Cherrywood: No one in Care-a-lot had ever followed the river. They had no idea whether it would lead them to Kim, Jason, the Missing Care Bears or to nowhere at all. NC imitating child: Mr. Cherrywood there seems to be a lot of holes in your story. Why would they never follow a river in the sky? They just never questioned why it was there? And for that matter if they never followed it why would they have a giant sailboat on standby? NC as Mr. Cherrywood: Quiet or I’ll smack you with my ring hand. NC: So Jason, Kim, and the other two care bears are trapped in between worlds. Which I guess is filled with lost cereal mascots. Braveheart: Everyone in the Forest of Feelings knows of Playfulheart Monkey and Braveheart. Only for $12.49,look for them in your nearest Walmart…. [William Wallace Screams] NC: I know. I know but how could I not put that? So even though they’re lost in the Forest of Feelings, the people of Earth are deteriorating, and Care-a-lot is falling apart that doesn’t stop our heroes from having a song number. Jason: *singing* Do you have a house made all out of wood for keeping you dry when it’s raining? NC: Wow, that’s pretty bad kid. I mean, not William Hung bad, but … William Hung: She-bangs! She-bangs! NC: but bad. Playfulheart: Look! I see a bee on Friend Bear’s nose! Stop! really? Kim: Stay perfectly still. Friend Bear: Oooh. NC: Um, that was totally necessary. What, was the movie like 20 seconds too short so you had to add a bee scene? The song is pointless enough already. You don’t need any more padding. Meanwhile, Nicolas and The Spirit continued to turn all the people of the world into rotten A-holes. The Spirit: These two small children still care. Nicolas: But they were to fall under my spell. The Spirit: Ah, but those sweet, cuddly little bears shield them from your spells with their love and caring. NC: What is up with this woman’s voice? Is someone just eating her out while she’s saying her lines? NC as Spirit: Those cute cuddly little bears–ah! Oh. Oh yes they care so much–mmm! I know a happy ending The Spirit: You must finish it. Say it. Nicolas: Zip! Zap! Zot! WHAT THE F&CK IS THAT THING!?! [Nicolas Screams] NC: Oh, great you unleashed Hell. The apocalypse is finally begun, and Satan is going to rule the Earth. Good job. The Spirit: Now, go! NC: So that purple fart goes to find the others. That’s the care bear ship comes across more friends that they can make good toys out of. Penguin: I’m Cozyheart Penguin. Helping someone in need is what warms my heart and keeps me cozy. NC: Only $9.95! Hassle, scream and yell at your parents until they finally break down and buy you one. it’s more important than breathing. find them at your nearest Target They also come across a pink elephant and guessing the amount of booze you’ve probably had throughout this picture. I’m guessing you’re coming across a few as well. [Elephant trumpet] Things aren’t so hot with Kim and Jason as the purple smoke possesses the only tree that happens to have an evil face. Kim: Aahhh! Woah! Braveheart: Charge! NC as William Wallace: They may take our lives, but they’ll never take our marketability! YOU FAILED MISERABLY!!! NC: Wow. Fail. but luckily Speedy Gonhoppers comes along to save the day. Speedy: Arriva! Arriva! NC: So the new bunny friend joins them on their adventure, but unfortunately the purple smoke takes on another form. FAIL!!!!!!! NC: You know you’re really bad at that. Just think of your brave doesn’t mean you’re capable. Friend Bear: Our only hope is a care bear stare. I just hope it works. Secret Bear: There’s only two of us… Friend Bear: Care Bear Stare! Aykroyd: Start bringing him down. Start bringing him down. You got him. Don’t cross the streams! Friend Bear: The two of us aren’t enough. CHOMP THE RAINBOW, NC as the Bears: TASTE THE RAINBOW MOTHERFUCKER! All: Yay! NC: Pff- well fuck caring. The answer to this problem was violence; wonderful, caring, violence. [Braveheart roars] So they gather all the other animals of the forest because there weren’t enough fucking toys to sell as they find their way out of the forest and back to Earth. How lucky the river just so happens to pass space and time. Tenderheart: Do you still have the key that I gave you? Jason: Sure do! Tenderheart: If we lose that key Jason we can never win! NC: That’s why I’m entrusting it to a small boy I barely know. How does this make sense again? So, Nicholas casts his spell to turn Kim and Jason into heartless jerks but he needs them to be close in order for the spell to work. Tenderheart: Nicolas. Nicola- Nicolas: You’re too late! Too late! NC as Lugosi: I have officially become a vampire! Not one of those sparkling ones though. They totally suck ass. The Care Bears try to stop him, but the evil of the book is just way too strong. Share Bear: The spirit’s power is too strong. Love-a-lot Bear: Look! Cozyheart: Nicolas! what…the…fuck…? NC: *Laughing* Oh Jesus. Nicolas: Were are they? NC: This kid could totally give the emperor from Star Wars a run for his money. Emperor’s voice: No, young Skywalker you will die. NC: The Care Bears try to… um, stare him down as the other animals try to help. Braveheart: Everybody call! [Assorted animal sounds] NC: Okay guys that’s really not helping. I mean, maybe get a- I don’t know, a gun or some kind of a blunt instrument or uhh… Uh yeah. You’re totally useless. FAILS FOR EVERYONE!!! [Nicolas laughing] Tenderheart: Kim! Jason! No! The Spirit: Its them! NC: *laughing* Good Lord, what is up with this kid’s face? He’s turning into Judge Doom from Who Framed Roger Rabbit. Judge Doom: When I killed your brother I talked just like this! [Thud] NC: That was a brick. That was literally a brick. Jason: We care about you. We used to be like you. We thought nobody cared. Kim: but we were wrong. Now we want to be your friends Nicholas. NC: Okay, You know the drill. The kids start saying that they care about Nicholas which gives him the will to care and thus he stops using the book. Tenderheart: Jason! The Key! Nelson from the Simpsons: Ha ha! Secret Bear: Hold on Nicolas! NC: *sputtering* Hey! What that hell!? So the key they kept building up this whole time as the big secret weapon can be duplicated whatever they want? What did they just want to make the little boy feel important? All: Hooray! NC: So Care-a-lot is saved. The two kids get adopted. And Nicholas finally perfects his magic. TheCare Bears also welcome two new animal friends to be Care Bear… cousins?brothers? lions whatever, and they celebrate by dancing like they have a dump in their pants. [music] In the Care Bear family NC: And it turns out all the children in the orphanage fell asleep. No doubt bored senseless of Mr. Cherrywood’s story. Mr. Cherrywood: Now they’ll never know what eventually became of Nicholas. I guess all they need to know is that he too lived happily ever after. Happier than I ever thought I could be. NC as Tenderheart: Good story, but he missed the part about the sodomy and the ties to the JFK assassination, but I guess that stuff wasn’t very important. kkkAnd also that these subtitles have been self aware the whole time… NC: So that’s the Care Bears movie. How does it hold up? Well, yeah, it’s stupid, but to be fair it’s for little kids It’s kind of hard to beat up on something intended from really young children. It’s not good, but there’s not really anything bad in it for kids. It’s relatively harmless. So if you’re ages one to, I don’t know, one you’ll probably enjoy it okay. But there’s still one thing that really bothers me. Why was the book so evil? I mean, what was her motivation all this time? It doesn’t make an exact — The Spirit: Critic. Open the book Critic. You wanted to know what my motivation was? NC: Yeah. Yeah, I do. The Spirit: It was to make the people of the world stop caring. NC: I knew that, but why do you want that to begin with? The Spirit: I don’t know I don’t care. NC: Oh, I see because you don’t care nobody else cares. So you go around– The Spirit: Yeah it’s kind of a Catch-22 NC: Piss off The Spirit: Wait no! I can still give you a happy ending! NC: I’m the Nostalgia Critic. I remember it so you don’t have to. The Spirit: A-hole. [Care-a-lot Song] Wait! I see a bee on Friend Bear’s nose! Oh,shut up!!

    Articles

    Superconducting Quantum Levitation on a 3π Möbius Strip

    August 19, 2019


    A simple loop has two sides. You can’t get
    from the red side to the green side without crossing the edge. If you cut the loop, twist
    one end by 180 degrees, or π radians, and connect them again, you will have a Möbius
    strip: a mathematically non-orientable surface with only one boundary. Now, you can travel along the red side to
    the green without going over the edge. If you twist the end again for a total of
    360 degrees, or 2π radians, you will have a twisted loop. You again can’t get from the red side to the
    green side. If you twist the end a third time for a total
    of 540 degrees, or 3π radians, you will again have a Möbius strip. Our demonstration is a 3π Möbius strip track.
    By the time the superconductor has gone around the loop once, it has rotated 540 degrees
    about its own axis. This animation shows you how to twist a loop
    540 degrees to get a 3π Möbius strip track.

    Old Railroad Crossing 1987 & Now
    Articles, Blog

    Old Railroad Crossing 1987 & Now

    August 19, 2019


    Ladies and Gentlemen, I’m going to take you back in time April 1987 Look at the 3 cantilevers Old SCL cantilevers This is where it’s located. Right on North River Drive where the red arrow is flashing. It’s a very busy corner of Miami. You got 4 main streets meeting there. You got North River Drive right here then you got NW 36th ST US 27 in the background and then you got the 112 highway exit and the on ramp quite a lot right? This is track view South. As you can see, this is the CSX historic Bridge in Miami, which was built in 1926. and the signal right there. And then track view North You’ll notice the 112 and there’s a Tri Rail Station. So now onto the crossing as it looks nowadays. Hey guys, I’m going to show you guys an old school SCL crossing located on the S line extension There’s the mile post right here. WRRS cantilever with Modern Industries lights Okay guys and we got 4 Safe Tran lights up there. But yeah, that cantilever that side got replaced with the modern one. See it’s vastly different from this one Here you even have the crossing gate separate from the cantilever which is a characteristic of an SCL crossing. And here you have a Safe Tran gate mechanism. And let me give you a shot from the back. Crossing lights are Reco lights. Oh, here you go! Our lucky day, they’re doing signal work. signal maintenance over here. Electronic Bell sounds That’s an E dinger. Back in the day this used to be a most likely a US&S mechanical teardrop bell. I have a video. I’ll include a link to it. There’s one down the line. Yeah, look at the Safe Tran Systems base. And we got the crossing gate going back up now. There was a huge malfunction at this crossing a few weeks ago. I’ll include a link in the description. Okay guys, please subscribe, like, or share. And I thank you very much for viewing. Take care. Over and out.

    Live Steam Railroad, Riverside & Great Northern Wisconsin Dells, Wisconsin             -1
    Articles, Blog

    Live Steam Railroad, Riverside & Great Northern Wisconsin Dells, Wisconsin -1

    August 19, 2019


    oh come all your father happy fathers day right away we came out of when built in the 1850s for the Milwaukee in the crossroads but now we would be real railroad 448 cafe it was used during the Civil War to transport Union soldiers own but because of that grade you know how slowly coming that something percent great that’s great great for railroad so they abandon his life in 1902 removing is now about 200 feet south of us when fracture be calling on the bottom now where it was left abandoned in the early nineteen fifteen where the government and Janesville was running in riverside park but he was asked to leave town because you near the hospital home making sort boys etc we come up here he puts it 15 pages 39 cars of 19 demons right here and here on the property when he retired 1980 because of illness in 1988 the riverside great northern Preservation Society report started running nineteen nineties now before June eleventh two thousand for that bridge you came over that was not a bridge that went silent lab 200 feet what’s the line boo 20-feet wide there was another track down there well what we have 27 years in the rain and 26 days that we had a fight a storm i’ll remember $MONTH twenty-second we have this one was torn off all the weight on the bridge on august 15 2005b construction company from washing equipment six weeks later the bridge was in we then add volunteers we put the mainline deciding and the tournament but we didn’t do it six weeks and it took us a year and a half but they look old decrepit people like myself some days we worked a little bit with somebody that we did you do that but how we gonna pay for it all well we got money to FEMA but any donation to put that mailbox is greatly appreciate because we gotta come up with fifty percent you okay now we’re gonna run from now after labor day daily then we go back on our weekend’s schedule as you know is beautiful or october October’s our biggest month because we come up we turn we go back to that cabin you also my cabin it’s about two-thirty way back on that side that’s where we’re going to get pumpkins now it’s going to be all four weekends not only one so far as i know we’re the only ones in this area we do not charge for the pumpkins we just chose for the right then hopefully after thanksgiving will have Santa trains why I see you won’t believe because the last two years we got one weekend mother nature took care of his former snow or any questions okay you go back over the bridge there’s a canyon down about 600 feet 700 meet another canyon look down to your right down yesterday there were deer down in there they’re real hard to see all day there’s a mall on going on on down in this okay okie i’ll give you $MONEY a week now we look up and then and then well I even get up ok take it off as we are new party hi baby maybe

    LEGO Minecart – Minecraft
    Articles, Blog

    LEGO Minecart – Minecraft

    August 19, 2019


    All right. What’s going on guys? My name is ZaziNombies. And today, I’ve built the Minecraft Minecart. This was of course crafted with five Lego iron ingots. And I’ve given it some wheels as well. And we’re out here on the tracks, to bring it out, give it a little test drive. In Minecraft the minecarts- They basically float on the tracks. But I’ve given it some lego wheels as I said. to you know, be able to roll around. It rolls pretty good as well. And there you can see I put… I’ve got a lego track as well. to you know, have it roll across. There you can see I used a lot of smooth Lego bricks. For that sort of inside It’s got that kind of worn look you know some “coal” sort of that “steel” look as well. Light gray and dark grey were the two main colors for this creation. And if you guys want to build your own Lego Minecart, you can take a pause pretty much anywhere in the video. The tracks were just built with some tan, light gray, dark gray smooth bricks. And uh… The dimensions for the Minecart are 20 by 16. And there you can see the tracks. It’s got that sort of dark tan Lego brick for the kind of gravel I guess, in the middle of the tracks. So Minecraft can be customized to place different blocks in them you know: Chests, hoppers, that sort of thing. And they’re one of two vehicles in Minecraft. The other being the boat, which we’ve brought to life with Lego as well. So now we have the Minecart to add to our collection. Hope you guys enjoyed. Let me know what you guys want to see built next? And I’ll see you guys in another video.

    Tales of Springfield Railroad shorts: Fails on the rails
    Articles, Blog

    Tales of Springfield Railroad shorts: Fails on the rails

    August 19, 2019


    NM&WTexas: SLOW THE F**K DOWN! Uh oh, seems that it’s going to be a crash. Get ready for the biggest derailment ever! (Look Larry is stuck on the building because of the giant derailment)WHAT THE HELL ADAM?! WATCH WHERE YOU ARE GOING YOU STUPID TRASH 9!!

    Dr. Robert Zubrin – Mars Direct: Humans to the Red Planet within a Decade
    Articles, Blog

    Dr. Robert Zubrin – Mars Direct: Humans to the Red Planet within a Decade

    August 19, 2019


    [music playing] – WELCOME TO
    THE 75TH ANNIVERSARY OF NASA AMES RESEARCH CENTER AND THE DIRECTOR’S
    COLLOQUIUM SUMMER SERIES. WE FIRST ACHIEVED HUMAN LANDING ON THE MOON IN 1969. AT THE SAME TIME,
    VON BRAUN AND OTHERS PITCHED THE IDEA
    OF GOING TO MARS TO THE PRESIDENT
    OF THE UNITED STATES. THE QUESTION IS: WHY MARS? FIRST, IT’S OUR NEAREST
    NEIGHBOR, RIGHT? IT’S THE NEXT-PLANET NEIGHBOR,
    VENUS AND MARS. SECOND, IT IS A WAY FOR US
    TO UNDERSTAND OUR PAST BY STUDYING THE NEIGHBORS
    THAT ARE NEXT TO US. IT’S ALSO POTENTIALLY A PLACE
    TO COLONIZE IN THE FUTURE. BUT I ALWAYS SAY THAT
    SCIENCE-FICTION DRIVES REALITY. WHEN WE FIRST STARTED
    LOOKING AT MARS, WE SAW WHAT LOOKED
    LIKE CANALS AND CHANNELS THAT ARE THERE CHANGING, AND WE ENVISIONED
    THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE ON THAT PLANET. SOME EVEN ENVISIONED ATTACKS FROM MARS
    ON OUR PLANET. SO FAR, WE HAVE HAD
    MANY MISSIONS TO MARS, ROBOTIC MISSIONS
    THAT ARE EXPLORING MARS. BUT I PERSONALLY,
    AND MANY OTHERS, WANT TO SEE US THERE, SEE HUMANS GO TO MARS. WHEN DO WE DO THIS? DO WE WAIT UNTIL
    WE’VE RESOLVED ALL ISSUES, UNTIL WE KNOW WE HAVE NO MORE
    TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT? OR DO WE DECIDE A CERTAIN DATE
    BY WHICH WE STOP AND TAKE OUR TECHNOLOGY
    THAT WE HAVE AND TAKE SOME RISKS AND GO TO MARS? WHEN YOU TAKE THOSE MISSIONS,
    YOU WILL LEARN, AND AS YOU LEARN
    FROM THOSE MISSIONS, YOU COULD HAVE
    SAFER TRAVELS TO MARS AND POTENTIALLY OTHER PLANETS. TODAY’S TALK IS ENTITLED “MARS DIRECT: HUMANS TO
    THE RED PLANET WITHIN A DECADE.” IT WILL BE PRESENTED
    BY DR. ROBERT ZUBRIN, WHO IS THE PRESIDENT
    OF PIONEER ASTRONAUTICS AND ALSO THE SPIN-OFF
    PIONEER ENERGY. HE IS A FELLOW OF THE BRITISH
    INTERPLANETARY SOCIETY AND THE FOUNDER AND PRESIDENT
    OF MARS SOCIETY. HE HAS INVENTED
    SEVERAL UNIQUE CONCEPTS FOR SPACE PROPULSION
    AND EXPLORATION, THE AUTHOR OF HUNDREDS
    OF PUBLICATIONS, TECHNICAL PUBLICATIONS
    AND NON-TECHNICAL PUBLICATIONS, INCLUDING NONFICTION
    AND FICTION BOOKS. PLEASE JOIN ME
    IN WELCOMING ROBERT ZUBRIN. [applause] – OKAY. SO, THANK YOU
    FOR THAT KIND INTRODUCTION AND FOR INVITING ME
    TO COME AND SPEAK HERE. AND THANKS TO ALL OF YOU
    FOR COMING, LISTENING TO WHAT
    I’VE GOT TO SAY, AND MORE IMPORTANTLY,
    FOR WHAT YOU’RE DOING, BECAUSE I THINK THAT THIS TASK
    OF OPENING SPACE, OPENING THE UNIVERSE
    TO HUMANITY IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING
    GOING ON IN THE WORLD AT THIS TIME. THIS TIME WILL BE REMEMBERED BECAUSE THIS IS WHEN
    WE FIRST SET SAIL FOR OTHER WORLDS. I’M GONNA TALK HUMANS TO MARS
    WITHIN A DECADE, OKAY? AND I’M GONNA TALK
    A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHY I THINK
    IT WOULD HAVE TO BE DONE IN THAT KIND OF TIME FRAME
    IF YOU’RE GOING TO DO IT. I’M GONNA TALK AT SOME LENGTH AS TO HOW I THINK
    IT COULD BE DONE. IN FACT, I’M GOING TO SHOW YOU TWO DIFFERENT WAYS
    IT COULD BE DONE, A PREFERRED WAY AND ANOTHER WAY
    THAT WOULD ALSO WORK, ALTHOUGH IT PUSHES THE LIMITS
    OF MINIMALISM TO DO IT. AND FINALLY,
    I’LL TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHY IT NEEDS
    TO BE DONE AT ALL. AND BY THE WAY,
    IF YOU WANT TO HEAR MORE ON ESPECIALLY
    THAT LATTER SUBJECT, THE MARS SOCIETY IS HAVING
    ITS CONFERENCE IN HOUSTON AUGUST 7TH THROUGH 10TH. YOU’RE ALL INVITED TO COME. THERE’LL BE ALL KINDS
    OF TALKS THERE ABOUT WHY AND HOW
    WE CAN GO TO MARS. SO, HUMANS TO MARS
    WITHIN A DECADE, OKAY? IS THAT REALLY POSSIBLE? NASA’S CURRENT, I MEAN, TIMELINE IS TO DO IT
    AROUND THE YEAR 2047, MAYBE 3047. [laughter] THE QUESTION
    OF WHETHER WE CAN DO HUMANS TO MARS IN TEN YEARS IS SOMEWHAT ANALOGOUS
    TO THE QUESTION OF, “HOW MUCH ROPE DOES IT TAKE
    TO CONNECT TWO POSTS SEPARATED BY A DISTANCE
    OF 10 METERS?” IN PRINCIPLE, IT CAN BE DONE
    WITH 10 METERS OF ROPE. ON THE OTHER HAND,
    IF YOU LET THE ROPE BE TANGLED EVERY WHICH WAY, IT COULD TAKE AN INFINITE AMOUNT
    OF ROPE, OKAY, AND SO THE ANSWER
    TO THE QUESTION IS DEPENDENT UPON WHETHER YOU ACTUALLY WANT
    TO CONNECT THE TWO POSTS OR WHETHER YOU’RE TRYING
    TO SELL ROPE. AND “MARS DIRECT”
    WAS ACTUALLY CONCEIVED BY A TEAM LED BY ME AND ANOTHER ENGINEER
    NAMED DAVID BAKER AT MARTIN MARIETTA,
    WHICH BECAME LOCKHEED MARTIN, IN 1990 IN RESPONSE
    TO THE FAILURE, OR THE IMMINENT FAILURE– AT THAT TIME,
    IT HADN’T QUITE FAILED YET– OF THE FIRST PRESIDENT BUSH’S
    SPACE EXPLORATION INITIATIVE, WHICH WAS FOUNDERING
    BASED ON STICKER SHOCK DUE TO THE 90-DAY REPORT WHICH HAD POSTULATED
    A 30-YEAR PROGRAM COSTING $400 BILLION AND ALL SORTS OF EXERCISES
    IN INFRASTRUCTURE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENTS
    BEFORE WE COULD GET TO MARS. AND IT WAS VERY CLEAR
    TO US AT MARTIN THAT THE REASON
    WHY THE 90-DAY REPORT WAS SO LONG AND COSTLY
    AND COMPLEX WAS THAT IT WAS–
    HAD BEEN DESIGNED WITH THE IDEA OF MAKING
    A WHOLE BUNCH OF PEOPLE HAPPY, PEOPLE DEVELOPING THIS
    TECHNOLOGY AND THAT TECHNOLOGY IN THIS CENTER AND THAT CENTER
    OR THIS COMPANY OR THAT COMPANY OR HERE OR THERE OR EVERYWHERE. THEY HAD BASICALLY
    NOT DESIGNED A MISSION BUT A CHRISTMAS TREE UPON WHICH TO HANG
    ALL THE ORNAMENTS AND, YOU KNOW,
    PROVIDE BUSINESS FOR EVERYONE. AND THAT’S THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF THE CORRECT WAY
    TO DO ENGINEERING, OKAY? YOU DON’T DESIGN SOMETHING TO BE AS COMPLEX
    AND COSTLY AS POSSIBLE IN ORDER TO PLEASE YOUR VENDORS. YOU DESIGN IT TO BE
    AS SIMPLE AS POSSIBLE AND AS INEXPENSIVE
    AS POSSIBLE IN ORDER TO DO THE JOB
    MOST EFFICIENTLY. SO THE QUESTION
    WE ASKED OURSELVES WHEN WE DESIGNED “MARS DIRECT” IS, IF YOU WANTED
    TO DESIGN A MARS MISSION AND NOT PROVIDE EXCUSES
    FOR PEOPLE WHO WANTED, YOU KNOW, TO USE THIS TECHNOLOGY, WANTED TO USE
    ELECTRIC PROPULSION, WANTED TO USE
    NUCLEAR PROPULSION, WANTED TO USE THIS,
    WANTED TO USE THAT, WANTED TO USE
    BIOREGENERATIVE LIFE SUPPORT AND PHYSICAL LIFE SUPPORT
    AND THIS AND HAVE A LUNAR BASE AND HAVE A HANGAR
    ON THE SPACE STATION AND, YOU KNOW, THE ABILITY
    TO REUSE RL-10 ENGINES IN ORBIT, AND WHATEVER, HOW WOULD YOU DO IT IF YOU JUST WANTED
    TO GET THE JOB DONE, OKAY? AND THAT IS THE QUESTION
    WE ASKED OURSELVES. SO, FIRST, I’M GOING TO NOW
    PRESENT THE DESIGN AS WE DEVELOPED IT
    IN THE SPRING OF 1990. OKAY. THIS IS THE MISSION
    SEQUENCE CHART FOR THE “MARS DIRECT” PLAN. YOU CAN LAUNCH TO MARS
    EVERY TWO YEARS, SO WE’RE GOING TO BE LAUNCHING
    TWO BOOSTERS EVERY TWO YEARS TO MARS
    IN ORDER TO DO THIS. WELL, FIRST OF ALL,
    ANY SPACE OPERATION REQUIRES AN APPROPRIATE
    LAUNCH VEHICLE, AND WE SET OURSELVES THE TASK
    OF DESIGNING ONE IN THE SATURN V CLASS
    OUT OF AVAILABLE TECHNOLOGY, SHUTTLE TECHNOLOGY. AND ACTUALLY IT’S NOT
    VERY DIFFERENT FROM THE SLS THAT IS CURRENTLY BEING
    DEVELOPED BY NASA. I MEAN, WE’RE USING
    SHUTTLE MAIN ENGINES INSTEAD OF SOME OTHER MAIN
    ENGINES AT THE BOTTOM, AND THEY’RE OFFSET A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE THESE WERE
    GOING TO BE LAUNCHED IN PARALLEL WITH THE SHUTTLE, WHICH HAS ITS FLAME TRENCHES
    POSITIONED THUS. BUT, BASICALLY, HERE YOU GO. YOU HAVE FOUR SHUTTLE
    MAIN ENGINES, A COUPLE SOLIDS, THE EXTERNAL TANK CORE, HYDROGEN-OXYGEN UPPER STAGE, AND A 10-METER FAIRING, OR 33 FEET IF YOU WORK
    AT LOCKHEED MARTIN. AND THE–OKAY. AND THIS COULD LIFT 120 TONS
    TO LOW EARTH ORBIT, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, IT COULD USE THIS UPPER STAGE
    TO SEND 47 TONS ON DIRECT TRANS-MARS INJECTION OR 59 TONS
    ON TRANS-LUNAR INJECTION. AND THAT IS HOW
    WE WANTED TO DO THE MISSION, JUST LIFT AND THROW
    AND LET IT GO, SEND THE PAYLOAD TO THE PLANET, THE SAME BOOSTER THAT
    LAUNCHED IT IN THE FIRST PLACE. THAT’S HOW WE’VE DONE EVERY REAL, UNMANNED
    PLANETARY MISSION, THAT’S HOW WE DID THE REAL
    APOLLO MISSIONS TO THE MOON. NO ONE’S EVER DONE
    A MISSION TO ANYWHERE BY LIFTING THINGS
    TO THE SPACE STATION AND WAITING
    FOR THE INTERPLANETARY CRUISER TO RETURN FROM SATURN AND BE REFITTED
    TO LOAD THE PAYLOAD ON IT AND THEN GO BACK OUT. NO, JUST LIFT AND THROW
    AND LET IT GO. AND RIGHT THERE, IF YOU CAN
    DO THE MISSION THAT WAY, YOU’VE GONE 90% OF THE WAY
    TOWARDS TAKING THE MARS MISSION OUT OF THE SCIENCE-FICTION
    FUTURE AND PUTTING IT IN OUR WORLD
    OF REAL ENGINEERING. BUT HOW CAN YOU DO THAT? THE TYPICAL MARS MISSION
    DESIGNS THAT WERE AROUND WERE 700 TO 1,000 TONS IN LEO. THIS IS 120 TONS IN LEO, WHICH, BY THE WAY, IS A LITTLE
    LESS THAN A SATURN V, WHICH COULD DO 140. YOU KNOW, A BOOSTER
    THAT COULD LAUNCH ONE OF THESE DEATH STAR
    SPACESHIP CONCEPTS, YOU’D BLOW AWAY ORLANDO
    WHEN YOU TOOK OFF. SO HOW COULD YOU
    DO THIS MISSION WITH A SATURN V CLASS BOOSTER? WELL, IF YOU LOOKED
    AT THESE OTHER MISSION PLANS, WHAT YOU SAW WAS THAT
    THE MAJORITY OF THE MASS THAT THEY WERE SENDING TO MARS WAS THE PROPELLANT
    TO COME BACK. WELL, THAT MAY
    SEEM PRUDENT, OKAY? SHOULDN’T YOU GO TO MARS AND HAVE THE PROPELLANT
    TO COME BACK? WELL, IS THAT HOW
    WE’VE EXPLORED ON EARTH? DID LEWIS AND CLARK
    CROSS THE AMERICAN CONTINENT BRINGING WITH THEM ALL
    THE FOOD, WATER, AND AIR THEY WOULD NEED FOR THEMSELVES
    AND THEIR HORSES FOR A THREE-YEAR
    TRANSCONTINENTAL TRIP OF EXPLORATION? NO. IF THEY HAD DONE THAT, THEY WOULD HAVE NEEDED
    A WAGON TRAIN OF SUPPLIES FOR EVERY MAN AND ANOTHER WAGON TRAIN
    FOR EVERY HORSE, AND THEN, OF COURSE,
    THE WAGON TRAIN MEN AND HORSES WOULD HAVE NEEDED
    FURTHER WAGON TRAINS, AND IT WOULD HAVE
    GONE EXPONENTIAL. AND NOT ONLY WOULD IT HAVE
    BLOWN THE BUDGET OF THOMAS JEFFERSON’S AMERICA, IT WOULD HAVE EXCEEDED
    THE MASS OF THE EARTH. OKAY, NOW, THE–BUT NO,
    THAT’S NOT WHAT THEY DID. THEY HUNTED THEIR WAY ACROSS, AND IN CERTAIN WAYS THEY TRADED
    WITH NATIVE AMERICANS TO OBTAIN NECESSARY SUPPLIES. BUT IN EITHER CASE,
    THEY WERE MAKING USE OF THE RESOURCES
    THAT WERE AVAILABLE IN THE ENVIRONMENT
    THEY INTENDED TO OPERATE IN. WELL, WHY ARE WE GOING TO MARS? WE’RE GOING TO MARS
    BECAUSE MARS IS THE PLANET THAT HAS THE RESOURCES
    THAT CAN SUPPORT LIFE AND, THEREFORE, POTENTIALLY
    TECHNOLOGICAL CIVILIZATION. WELL, THE SAME RESOURCES
    THAT MAKE MARS INTERESTING, IF YOU MAKE USE OF THEM,
    CAN ALSO MAKE IT ATTAINABLE. SO THAT IS THE ORIENTATION
    WE TOOK HERE. WHAT IS THE TRAVEL-LIGHT,
    LIVE-OFF-THE-LAND APPROACH TO MARS EXPLORATION? SO THE FIRST THING
    THAT WE SEND TO MARS, THE FIRST LAUNCH, HERE, SENDS OUT
    ON A MINIMUM-ENERGY TRAJECTORY A EARTH RETURN VEHICLE, ERV. AND WHAT THIS IS,
    THIS IS A LITTLE ROCKET SHIP FOR RETURNING FROM MARS TO EARTH IN THE TERMINAL STAGE
    OF THE MISSION. BUT NO ONE’S IN IT
    WHEN IT GOES OUT THE FIRST TIME. SO IT IS UNMANNED. IT’S GOT A LITTLE CABIN HERE,
    15 FEET IN DIAMETER, WITH SPARTAN QUARTERS
    FOR A CREW OF FOUR FOR A SIX-MONTH VOYAGE
    FROM MARS BACK TO EARTH. THEN IT’S GOT TWO
    METHANE OXYGEN CHEMICAL PROPULSION STAGES HERE
    WHICH ARE UNFUELED. THEY HAVE TO BE UNFUELED, OR THIS WILL WEIGH
    MUCH TOO HEAVY FOR SOMETHING LIKE
    A SATURN V CLASS BOOSTER TO THROW TO MARS. HOWEVER, IN SOME
    OF THE LOWER STAGE TANKS THAT ARE LATER
    GOING TO CONTAIN METHANE, WE’VE GOT ABOUT 6 TONS
    OF LIQUID HYDROGEN PROBABLY IN GEL FORM, AND THEN SLUNG
    BELOW THE VEHICLE, NOT SHOWN IN THIS DIAGRAM, IS A LITTLE TRUCK,
    A LIGHT TRUCK, LIKE A LITTLE PICKUP TRUCK. IN THE BACK OF THAT TRUCK
    IS A LITTLE NUCLEAR REACTOR WITH A POWER
    OF 100 KILOWATTS. OKAY, 100 KILOWATTS
    IS LIKE 130 HORSEPOWER, SAME AMOUNT OF POWER
    THAT POWERS A MEDIUM-SIZE CAR. OKAY, SO IT’S NOT A GIANT
    NUCLEAR POWER PLANT THAT POWERS A CITY. IT’S JUST A NICE LITTLE
    PUTT-PUTT NUKE SITTING IN THE BACK OF A TRUCK. NOW, AFTER YOU’VE LANDED, THE TRUCK IS
    TELEROBOTICALLY DRIVEN A FEW HUNDRED METERS AWAY, UNWINDING A CABLE
    OFF THE BACK OF IT AS IT GOES, AND THEN THE REACTOR’S
    PUT ON THE GROUND, PREFERABLY IN A DITCH
    OR A CRATER ON THE REVERSE SIDE
    OF THE HILL, ANYTHING TO PUT A NICE-SIZE
    CHUNK OF DIRT BETWEEN THE REACTOR
    AND THE MAIN LANDING AREA. AND THEN YOU GOT POWER
    AT THE SHIP. YOU TURN IT ON, OKAY,
    AND WHAT YOU DO THEN IS, YOU RUN A PUMP, AND YOU SUCK IN
    THE MARTIAN AIR, WHICH IS 95% CARBON DIOXIDE, AND YOU REACT THAT WITH THE HYDROGEN
    THAT YOU BROUGHT FROM EARTH, AND HYDROGEN CAN BE REACTED
    WITH CARBON DIOXIDE IN THE PRESENCE OF EITHER
    RUTHENIUM OR NICKEL ON ALUMINA CATALYST
    TO PRODUCE METHANE AND WATER. THAT’S KNOWN
    AS SABATIER REACTION. METHANE’S GOOD ROCKET FUEL.
    YOU STORE THAT. YOU TAKE THE WATER,
    YOU ELECTROLYZE IT, SPLIT IT INTO HYDROGEN
    AND OXYGEN. OH, HERE’S THE WHOLE DIAGRAM. AND SO THIS MAKES
    METHANE AND WATER. THE WATER IS ELECTROLYZED,
    GIVES YOU OXYGEN. HYDROGEN IS RECYCLED. THEN, TO MAKE ADDITIONAL OXYGEN,
    YOU HAVE A THIRD REACTOR IN WHICH YOU SPLIT
    CARBON DIOXIDE INTO CARBON MONOXIDE
    AND OXYGEN, KEEP THE OXYGEN,
    DUMP THE CARBON MONOXIDE. YOU CAN DO THAT ON MARS. THERE’S NO EPA THERE, WHICH IS A SUBSTANTIAL
    GOOD REASON TO GO TO MARS. [laughter] AND NOW YOU’VE GOT A FULLY
    FUELED EARTH RETURN VEHICLE SITTING, WAITING FOR YOU
    ON THE SURFACE OF MARS. AND, IN FACT, WE MAKE
    EXTRA PROPELLANT BEYOND WHAT THE EARTH RETURN
    VEHICLE NEEDS SO THAT WE CAN OPERATE
    CHEMICAL-POWERED VEHICLES ON THE SURFACE OF MARS
    FOR EXPLORATION PURPOSES. AND WHY DO WE WANT TO DO THAT? BECAUSE WE’RE GOING TO MARS
    TO EXPLORE, AND CHEMICAL-REACTION VEHICLES HAVE A MUCH HIGHER
    POWER-TO-MASS RATIO THAN YOU CAN GET WITH ELECTRIC
    VEHICLES OR R.T.G. VEHICLES OR ANYTHING OF THAT SORT, WHICH IS WHY THEY’RE SO MUCH
    MORE POPULAR HERE ON EARTH. AND IN A FRONTIER ENVIRONMENT
    LIKE MARS, WHERE YOU REALLY WANT THE SPEED,
    THE LONG RANGE, THE TORQUE, THE HAULING CAPABILITY, AND ALL-AROUND MUSCLE YOU GET
    FROM HAVING A REAL CAR INSTEAD OF A GOLF CART, YOU REALLY WANT TO HAVE ONE. BUT IT WOULDN’T BE PRACTICAL IF YOU HAD TO BRING THE FUEL
    FROM EARTH. BUT BECAUSE YOU CAN MAKE
    THE FUEL ON MARS, THEN YOU HAVE THIS
    ADDITIONAL CAPABILITY. SO THE POINT HERE
    IS THAT THE ABILITY TO MAKE USE OF LOCAL RESOURCES IS NOT JUST THE KEY
    TO MAKING THE MISSION CHEAP. IT’S ALSO THE KEY
    TO MAKING THE MISSION EFFECTIVE, WHICH IS EVEN
    MORE IMPORTANT, ACTUALLY, BECAUSE THERE’S NO POINT
    GOING TO MARS UNLESS YOU CAN DO SOMETHING
    USEFUL ONCE YOU GET THERE. SO, OKAY, THE NEXT– THIS BEING DONE, AT THE NEXT LAUNCH OPPORTUNITY,
    TWO YEARS LATER, WE LAUNCH TWO MORE BOOSTERS
    OFF THE CAPE. ONE SENDS OUT
    ANOTHER EARTH RETURN VEHICLE. THE OTHER SHOOTS OUT A HAB WITH A CREW
    OF FOUR ASTRONAUTS IN IT. NOW, BECAUSE OUR RETURN RIDE IS WAITING FOR US
    ON THE SURFACE OF MARS, WE DON’T NEED TO FLY TO MARS IN A GIGANTIC
    DEATH STAR SPACESHIP, OKAY? WE DON’T EVEN HAVE TO FLY OUT IN A COMPARATIVELY MODEST
    “MILLENNIUM FALCON.” WE CAN FLY TO MARS
    IN A TUNA CAN. AND THAT’S A VERY GOOD THING, BECAUSE WE KNOW
    HOW TO BUILD THEM AND THEY’VE BEEN PROVEN
    IN INDUSTRY TO BE A VERY EFFECTIVE FORM
    OF PACKAGING. NOW, OURS IS SOMEWHAT LARGER THAN THE CHICKEN
    OF THE SEA UNIT. OKAY, THIS IS 8 1/2 METERS,
    27 FEET IN DIAMETER. TWO DECKS,
    EACH WITH 8 FEET OF HEADROOM. UPPER DECK IS WHERE THEY LIVE. LOWER DECK IS MORE
    OF A CARGO HOLD, WORKSHOP KIND OF PLACE. HERE’S ONE POTENTIAL LAYOUT
    OF THE UPPER DECK. FOUR LITTLE STATEROOMS. THERE’S A CREW OF FOUR IN HERE,
    IF I DIDN’T MENTION THAT. SCIENCE AREA, GALLEY,
    EXERCISE AREA, AND IN THE CENTER IS
    A SOLAR FLARE STORM SHELTER. OKAY, THERE’S TWO KINDS
    OF RADIATION THAT CAN GET YOU IN SPACE: SOLAR FLARES, COSMIC RAYS. SOLAR FLARES COME FROM THE SUN, BIG PULSES OF RADIATION
    IN AN UNPREDICTABLE WAY. THAT IS, YOU DON’T KNOW
    WHEN IT’S GONNA HAPPEN, MAYBE ONE BIG ONE A YEAR. BUT THEY’RE BASICALLY PROTONS WITH ENERGIES
    OF ABOUT A MEGAVOLT THAT CAN BE STOPPED
    BY 5 INCHES OF WATER. AND WE HAVE ENOUGH PROVISIONS
    ON THE SHIP TO MASS THAT OUT. SO THAT’S HOW YOU’RE SAFE
    AGAINST THE SOLAR FLARES. THE COSMIC RAYS, WHICH ARE A
    LITTLE PITTER-PATTER CONSTANTLY OF HIGH-ENERGY RADIATION COMING IN FROM
    INTERSTELLAR SPACE, THAT CANNOT BE STOPPED
    WITH 5 INCHES OF WATER, BUT THE DOSE FOR THAT
    IS MODERATE, AS I WILL SHOW YOU LATER, THAT THIS IS– YOU’RE GONNA TAKE THIS
    WHEN YOU GO TO MARS NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO, BUT IT REPRESENTS
    A MODEST PORTION OF OVERALL MISSION RISK. NOW, LET ME JUST SAY THIS,
    BY THE WAY. THE TRAJECTORY THAT WE’RE
    GOING OUT TO MARS ON IS A SIX-MONTH TRAJECTORY. AND THIS IS
    THE CORRECT TRAJECTORY TO SEND PEOPLE TO MARS ON REGARDLESS OF THE PROPULSION
    SYSTEM THAT YOU HAVE. THAT IS, THERE’S PEOPLE
    GOING AROUND SAYING, “WE’VE GOT TO GO TO MARS FASTER.
    WE’VE GOT TO GO TO MARS FASTER. “IF WE HAD
    NUCLEAR THERMAL ROCKETS, WE COULD GET TO MARS
    IN FOUR MONTHS.” WELL, YOU COULD,
    BUT YOU SHOULDN’T. IF YOU HAD
    NUCLEAR THERMAL ROCKETS, YOU SHOULD GET TO MARS
    IN SIX MONTHS AND USE THE SUPERIOR
    PROPULSION CAPABILITY TO DOUBLE YOUR PAYLOAD, OKAY? WHY? WELL, THERE’S TWO REASONS. ONE IS, DOUBLING THE PAYLOAD WILL DO FAR MORE
    FOR MISSION SAFETY THAN REDUCING THE TRANSIT TIME
    BY TWO MONTHS, OKAY. IN TERMS OF MORE REDUNDANCY, OF CRITICAL SYSTEMS
    AND SO FORTH, THAT’S POSSIBLE. BUT THE OTHER IS THIS. SIX MONTHS OUTBOUND TRANSIT IS THE TWO-YEAR FREE RETURN
    TRAJECTORY TO EARTH. SO IF YOU HAVE TO
    ABORT THE MISSION, YOU CAN FLY BY MARS, COME BACK, YOU GET BACK TO EARTH’S ORBIT EXACTLY TWO YEARS
    AFTER YOU LEFT IT, AND EARTH WILL BE THERE. IF YOU TRY TO GO TO MARS FASTER, YOU NECESSARILY GO OUT FURTHER
    ON A FREE RETURN. YOU COME BACK
    IN MORE THAN TWO YEARS, AND EARTH IS NOT THERE, OKAY? SO, BY TRYING TO GO TO MARS
    FASTER THAN SIX MONTHS, YOU LOSE ROBUSTNESS
    AND YOU LOSE THE FREE RETURN, SO YOU SHOULDN’T DO IT, OKAY? BETTER PROPULSION IS BETTER, BUT USE IT TO INCREASE
    THE PAYLOAD. OKAY. NOW, THE ONE HEALTH EFFECT THAT
    WE REALLY HAVE SEEN IN SPACE HAS NOT BEEN FROM RADIATION. IT’S BEEN FROM ZERO GRAVITY. OKAY, AND SO WE MAKE
    ARTIFICIAL GRAVITY ON THE SHIP BY TETHERING OFF
    THE BURNT-OUT UPPER STAGE. THIS IS THE BURNT-OUT
    UPPER STAGE OF THE ARES BOOSTER. IT THREW US TO MARS. IT’S COASTING TO MARS TOO. IT CAN BE USED
    AS A COUNTERWEIGHT ON THE END OF A TETHER. THIS THING IS ABOUT A MILE LONG,
    1,500 METERS. SPIN THIS AT 1 RPM,
    YOU GET MARS GRAVITY IN THE HAB. IF YOU SPUN IT AT
    A LITTLE LESS THAN 2 RPM, YOU’D HAVE EARTH GRAVITY
    IN THE HAB AND AVOID THE DECONDITIONING
    ASSOCIATED WITH ZERO GRAVITY AND OTHER HEALTH EFFECTS,
    EYE EFFECTS AND SO FORTH, THAT HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED. THOSE ARE THE SERIOUS
    HEALTH EFFECTS OF SPACE FLIGHT, AND THEY CAN BE AMELIORATED
    THIS WAY. OKAY, SO–
    I DON’T KNOW WHY THAT’S THERE. OH, I KNOW WHY IT’S THERE. OKAY, SO THEY FLY OUT TO MARS,
    TAKE SIX MONTHS. THEY FIRE PYRO, CUT THE CABLE,
    AERO-BRAKE, AND GO AND LAND
    AT LANDING SITE NUMBER ONE, WHERE THE FULLY FUELED
    EARTH RETURN VEHICLE IS WAITING FOR THEM. OKAY. IF THEY LAND OFF-COURSE, THEY’VE GOT A PRESSURIZED ROVER
    IN THE LOWER DECK OF THE HAB. IT HAS A ONE-WAY RANGE
    OF 600 MILES, SO THEY REALLY SHOULD
    BE ABLE TO ACHIEVE THIS SURFACE RENDEZVOUS. IF THEY CAN’T,
    THEY HAVE A REAL PROBLEM WITH THE PILOT
    SELECTION PROCESS. AND IF THAT’S THE CASE,
    WE CAN STILL SAVE THE MISSION BY TAKING THE SECOND
    EARTH RETURN VEHICLE AND LANDING IT NEAR THEM. BUT, ASSUMING THAT
    THEY DO LAND CORRECTLY, THE SECOND EARTH RETURN VEHICLE
    CAN BE LANDED ANYWHERE ELSE, COULD BE LANDED CLOSE BY, COULD BE ON THE OTHER SIDE
    OF THE PLANET, BUT I WOULD LAND IT
    A FEW HUNDRED MILES AWAY, BECAUSE IT WILL DEFINE WHERE THE NEXT
    EXPLORATION MISSION GOES. BUT I WOULD STILL LIKE IT TO BE WITHIN AT LEAST
    ONE-WAY DRIVING RANGE OF THE AVAILABLE
    GROUND TRANSPORTATION. SO THE CREW HAS TWO COMPLETE
    EARTH RETURN VEHICLES, EITHER ONE OF WHICH
    COULD TAKE THEM HOME. AND THEY HAVE THREE
    HABITABLE VOLUMES, THE BIG ONE IN THE HAB AND THE CABINS
    OF THE TWO ERVs. SO THEY’RE MULTIPLY
    BACKED UP IN THAT WAY. BUT THE REAL PURPOSE
    OF THIS ERV IS NOT FOR THEM. IT’S TO START MAKING PROPELLANT
    TO SUPPORT THE NEXT MISSION, WHICH FLIES OUT TWO YEARS LATER, ALONG WITH ANOTHER ERV,
    WHICH IS THEIR BACKUP, BUT WHICH OTHERWISE OPENS UP
    LANDING SITE NUMBER THREE. SO THIS IS AN ACTUAL PHOTOGRAPH
    OF THE BASE. [laughter] WHAT YOU SEE HERE, HERE IS
    THE EARTH RETURN VEHICLE. THERE’S THE CABIN,
    THE TWO PROPULSION STAGES, THE INTAKES FOR THE CHEMICAL
    PROCESSING UNIT, WHICH IS BUILT
    INTO THE LANDING STAGE THAT ACTS AS THE TAKEOFF PAD
    FOR THE REST OF IT. HERE’S THE REACTOR AND THE
    CRATER IN THE BACKGROUND, THE HABITAT,
    UPPER STAGE WHERE THEY LIVE, UPPER DECK WHERE THEY LIVE. LOWER DECK IS THE GARAGE FOR THE LITTLE
    PRESSURIZED ROVER, COUPLE OF SOLAR PANELS
    USED AS BACKUP POWER IF YOU HAVE TO TURN
    THE REACTOR OFF. YOU ALSO HAVE BACKUP POWER BY RUNNING THE ENGINE
    OF THE ROVER OR THE LIGHT TRUCK, WHICH MAY BE HARD TO SEE,
    BUT IT’S SITTING OVER HERE. IT’S AN UNPRESSURIZED VEHICLE WHICH IS ALSO THE BACKUP
    FOR THIS ONE. AND THEN THIS THING HERE
    IS AN INFLATABLE GREENHOUSE. THIS IS NOT
    A MISSION-CRITICAL ELEMENT. IT’S AN EXPERIMENT IN LEARNING
    HOW TO GROW CROPS ON MARS IN MARTIAN SOIL,
    MARTIAN SUNLIGHT, MARTIAN GRAVITY, MARTIAN WATER, FOR THE BENEFIT OF FUTURE
    MISSIONS AND FUTURE BASES. NOW, AFTER A NUMBER OF THESE
    MISSIONS HAVE OCCURRED IN DIFFERENT PLACES, YOU’LL KNOW WHERE YOU WANT
    TO DEVELOP A MAJOR BASE, AND YOU COULD DO THAT
    BY LANDING A LOT OF THE HABS IN THE SAME PLACE
    AND MATING THEM UP. THESE ARE
    SECOND-GENERATION HABS HERE WHOSE LANDING LEGS
    CAN ARTICULATE NOT ONLY UP AND DOWN
    BUT ALSO SIDE-TO-SIDE, THUS ALLOWING THEM TO WALK
    MUCH IN THE MANNER THAT THE MARTIANS DID
    IN “THE WAR OF THE WORLDS.” SO THIS HAS HERITAGE. [laughter] AND THERE IT IS. AND I DON’T HAVE TIME
    TO GO INTO IT, BUT I’LL ASSERT WITHOUT PROOF THAT WE COULD USE
    THE SAME FLIGHT ELEMENTS TO BUILD A LUNAR BASE TOO, SO WE COULD DO THESE THINGS
    IN PARALLEL, OKAY. WE DON’T BUILD A LUNAR BASE
    IN ORDER TO GO TO MARS. YOU DON’T NEED A LUNAR BASE
    TO GO TO MARS. BUT, IN FACT, IF YOU WANTED
    TO MAINTAIN THE FLIGHT RATE ASSOCIATED WITH HAVING
    AN ACTIVE BOOSTER PROGRAM, YOU DON’T WANT TO BE LAUNCHING
    TWO EVERY TWO YEARS. YOU NEED TO LAUNCH
    MORE FREQUENTLY THAN THAT, OR, FRANKLY, YOU’RE WASTING
    A LOT OF MONEY BY HAVING A STANDING ARMY
    SITTING AROUND DOING NOTHING AND, IN FACT,
    GETTING OUT OF PRACTICE. SO YOU WOULD PROBABLY ACTUALLY
    DO THESE THINGS AT THE SAME TIME. AND SO THIS IS THE HARDWARE SET
    THAT WE NEED TO OPEN UP TWO NEW WORLDS. NOW, OKAY, THAT’S HOW
    I’D LIKE TO DO MARS, AND I THINK WE CAN DO THAT. HOWEVER, RECENTLY, YOU KNOW, SPACEX HAS COME ALONG, AND THEY ARE DEVELOPING HARDWARE THAT’S GOING TO BE DEVELOPED
    RELATIVELY SOON, OR SO IT WOULD SEEM, INCLUDING FALCON HEAVY CAPABLE
    OF LAUNCHING 50 TONS TO LOW EARTH ORBIT. NOW, 50 TONS IS NOT 120.
    IT’S LESS. IT IS. AND–BUT, YOU KNOW,
    I SET MYSELF THE TASK OF SAYING, “WELL, LOOK, WHAT IF I DIDN’T
    HAVE WHAT I WANT? “WHAT IF I HAVE THAT? “OKAY, CAN WE STILL
    DO HUMANS TO MARS? IS THERE A WAY THAT,
    YOU KNOW–” IN OTHER WORDS,
    THIS IS NOT AN IDEAL WORLD. YOU’VE GOT TO, YOU KNOW– AS DONALD RUMSFELD SAID, “YOU GO TO WAR
    WITH THE FORCES YOU GOT.” OKAY, HE’S AN AUTHORITY. AND, ANYWAY, YOU GO TO MARS
    WITH THE FORCES YOU GOT. SO HOW WOULD I DO IT? WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I WOULD TAKE
    AN ALTERATION OF THIS PLAN WHICH I CALL THE
    “MARS SEMI-DIRECT” PLAN. AND THIS, BY THE WAY,
    IS THE MISSION ARCHITECTURE THAT WAS ADOPTED
    BY NASA JOHNSON SPACE CENTER AND WAS D.R.,
    DESIGN REFERENCE, MISSION 3. OKAY, THIS IS A THREE-LAUNCH
    MISSION ARCHITECTURE, OKAY, IN WHICH ONE LAUNCH
    SENDS TO MARS THE EARTH-MARS ASCENT VEHICLE, WHICH GOES TO THE SURFACE AND MAKES PROPELLANT
    ON THE SURFACE. ONE SENDS THE HAB OUT
    WITH A CREW, AND ONE SENDS
    AN EARTH RETURN VEHICLE TO A HIGHLY ELLIPTICAL,
    LOOSELY BOUND MARS ORBIT, AND SO THAT THE MISSION PLAN IS, FIRST, YOU SEND
    AN ASCENT VEHICLE WHICH FUELS ITSELF
    ON THE SURFACE, WHOSE PROCESS IS SIMILAR
    TO “MARS DIRECT.” OKAY, AND THEN, IN THE NEXT
    LAUNCH OPPORTUNITY, YOU SEND OUT AN EARTH RETURN
    VEHICLE AND A HAB. NOW, IN FACT, THIS WOULD REQUIRE
    THREE FALCON HEAVIES, SO IT’S THREE LAUNCHES, OKAY. AND WHAT WE DID HERE WAS, THE FIRST TIME, I WOULD SEND
    ALL THESE ELEMENTS OUT, BUT WITH NO ONE
    IN ANY OF THEM, AND THEN AT
    THE SECOND OPPORTUNITY, YOU SEND OUT THE CREW IN A HAB
    THAT RENDEZVOUS ON THE SURFACE WITH THE ASCENT VEHICLE AND ANOTHER EARTH RETURN VEHICLE
    TO POSITION IN MARS ORBIT AND ANOTHER ASCENT VEHICLE. SO THE–AND THEN THE CREW
    ASCENDS TO ORBIT AT THE END OF A YEAR AND A HALF
    ON THE MARTIAN SURFACE IN THE PRE-POSITIONED
    ASCENT VEHICLE. AND WHILE THE OTHER ONE
    IS THERE MAKING PROPELLANT, THEN, IN FACT,
    IT’S A BACKUP FOR THEM. AND THE PRE-POSITIONED HAB
    IS THERE SO THAT WHEN THEY LAND
    IN THEIR HAB, THERE’S ACTUALLY TWO HABS. NOW, WHAT WE– WHAT I ASSUMED
    FOR THIS IS THAT WE HAD, ALSO,
    THE DRAGON WITH A LONG-DURATION
    LIFE SUPPORT SYSTEM INSTALLED IN IT. NOW, THE DRAGON
    IS KIND OF SMALL FOR LONG-DURATION HABITATION, SO THE NOTION HERE WAS THAT
    AN INFLATABLE EXTENSION FOR THE DRAGON COULD BE MADE
    THAT WOULD– IN OTHER WORDS, THE CREW COULD
    LAUNCH TO ORBIT IN A DRAGON, AND THEN HERE IT IS. IT TURNS AROUND,
    DOES THE APOLLO MANEUVER, AND PULLS OUT OF HERE,
    OR THE INFLATABLE, AND ALSO A TETHER THAT GOES
    TO THE UPPER STAGE AND CAN GIVE THIS
    ARTIFICIAL GRAVITY OFF THE TRANS-MARS
    INJECTION STAGE. NOW, I SAID I’D MENTION THIS
    BUSINESS ABOUT RADIATION, BECAUSE, ONCE AGAIN,
    THIS HAS REALLY BEEN USED AS A KIND OF SNOW DAY
    BY THOSE IN AUTHORITY WHO DON’T WANT TO GO TO MARS. IN OTHER WORDS, YOU KNOW,
    WE RECENTLY HAD RADIATION RESULTS
    FROM “CURIOSITY” IN TRANSIT WHICH WERE THE SAME AS THOSE
    FROM “MARIE” IN TRANSIT IN 2001. THE DATA WAS THE SAME,
    BUT IN 2001 THEY SAID, “THIS SHOWS THAT THE RADIATION
    DOSE OF GOING TO MARS IS A MODEST PORTION
    OF TOTAL MISSION RISK.” THEN IN 2013, THEY SAID, “THIS SHOWS THAT WE CAN’T
    GO TO MARS–HA-HA, SNOW DAY.” BUT, IN FACT, THE COSMIC RAY
    RADIATION DOSE RATES IN LOW EARTH ORBIT ARE HALF OF THOSE
    OF INTERPLANETARY SPACE. AND THIS IS BECAUSE
    THE EARTH’S MAGNETIC FIELD DOES NOT BLOCK
    AGAINST G-E-V COSMIC RAYS. THE EARTH BLOCKS OUT
    HALF THE SKY, AND THAT’S WHY
    IT’S A FACTOR OF TWO LESS. BUT IT’S THE SAME STUFF, AND IT’S JUST HALF
    THE DOSE RATE. AND, AS YOU CAN SEE, THERE’S ABOUT TEN COSMONAUTS
    AND ASTRONAUTS WHO HAVE RECEIVED, DUE TO LONG-DURATION ACTIVITY
    ON THE MIR OR THE SPACE STATION, COSMIC RAY DOSES THAT ARE
    QUITE COMPARABLE TO WHAT YOU WOULD GET
    DOING A ROUNDTRIP TO MARS. AND THERE HAVE BEEN NO
    RADIOLOGICAL CASUALTIES AMONG THIS GROUP. NOR WOULD WE EXPECT
    THERE TO HAVE BEEN, BECAUSE THE RADIATION RISK
    IS ABOUT 1%. AND SO THE IDEA
    THAT WE CANNOT GO TO MARS UNTIL MUCH MORE ADVANCED
    PROPULSION SYSTEMS THAT ARE AVAILABLE THAT CAN
    GET US TO MARS IN 30 DAYS IS NOT A VALID ARGUMENT, AND I BELIEVE
    IT’S DISINGENUOUS AS WELL. GIVEN THE FACT,
    GIVEN THE FACT, FIGURE IT OUT. OVER THE NEXT TEN YEARS, SPACE STATION WILL BE
    CONTINUALLY OCCUPIED, OKAY, WITH A CREW
    ABOUT THE SAME SIZE AS A MARS MISSION CREW, OKAY, SO TEN YEARS
    CONTINUAL OCCUPATION AT HALF THE DOSE RATE
    OF HUMAN MARS MISSIONS WHICH SPEND 40% OF THEIR TIME
    IN TRANSIT, OKAY. THE TOTAL NUMBER OF PERSON REMS
    BOTH PROGRAMS WOULD RECEIVE, THE SPACE STATION
    OVER THE NEXT TEN YEARS OR A PROGRAM OF SENDING
    FIVE HUMAN MISSIONS TO MARS OVER TEN YEARS, USING EVERY OPPORTUNITY
    FOR FLIGHT, IS THE SAME. SO RIGHT NOW, NASA, WHILE WAVING ITS HANDS
    IN HORROR OVER THE RADIATION RISK
    OF GOING TO MARS, IS ACTUALLY IMPOSING
    THAT SAME RADIATION RISK ON THEIR CREWS
    WITHOUT GOING ANYWHERE. NOW, ALL RIGHT. SO I WORKED OUT THE MASSES
    ON THIS, AND THE MARGINS ARE TIGHT,
    BUT THIS LOOKS DOABLE. ASSUMING 8 TONS, METRIC TONS,
    FOR THE DRAGONS THEMSELVES, YOU GO THROUGH
    THE VARIOUS CONSUMABLES. YOU HAVE TO HAVE
    WATER RECYCLING. AND THAT, BY THE WAY,
    IS KEY FOR ANY MARS MISSION, BECAUSE THE AMOUNT OF WATER
    THAT YOU USE, OKAY, NASA–WELL, AT LEAST IN SOME
    AMES DOCUMENTS THAT I SAW A DECADE AGO– THEY WERE SAYING 32 KILOGRAMS
    PER DAY PER PERSON WITHOUT RECYCLING. IN OUR MARS–ARTIC AND MARS
    DESERT RESEARCH STATIONS, WE’VE BEEN ABLE TO GET IT DOWN
    TO 12 A DAY PER PERSON. BUT EVEN THERE,
    IF YOU HAVE FOUR PEOPLE AND ROUND IT OFF
    TO 1,000 DAYS, 4,000 TIMES 12 WOULD BE
    48 TONS OF WATER IF YOU HAD NO RECYCLING. IF YOU HAVE 90% RECYCLING,
    IT’S 4.8 TONS OF WATER. SO THAT BECOMES DOABLE, BUT YOU’VE GOT TO DO THAT. THE KEY TECHNOLOGY HERE
    IS WATER RECYCLING. IT’S NOT IMPORTANT
    TO MAKE YOUR FOOD. YOU CAN BRING YOUR FOOD. THAT IS A MODEST MASS. IT’S WATER
    THAT REALLY WEIGHS IT. AND, WELL, IT’S ALL HERE. NOW, THE CREW IS A CREW OF TWO. AND, BY THE WAY,
    IN DOING THIS, I ASSUMED TWO AVERAGE PEOPLE
    IN TERMS OF SIZE. NOW, THAT COULD BE ALTERED. WHY DO WE HAVE TO SEND
    AVERAGE-SIZE PEOPLE TO MARS? WHY NOT SEND SMALL PEOPLE? WE TRY TO MAKE EVERYTHING ELSE
    SMALL AND LIGHTWEIGHT ON THE MISSION, AND A 100-POUND PERSON
    EATS HALF AS MUCH AS A 200-POUND PERSON. AND SO, YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE
    ARE CULTURAL ISSUES HERE, BUT IF ONE WANTED
    TO BE PRACTICAL, YOU MIGHT START THINKING
    IN THOSE DIRECTIONS. AND, IN FACT, THOUGH, IF WE DID USE SMALL PEOPLE, WE PROBABLY COULD HAVE
    A CREW OF THREE. OKAY, AND THEN THIS IS JUST
    AN ARTIST’S DEPICTION OF THESE THINGS LANDED ON MARS. THE NOTION HERE IS THESE HABS. YOU DON’T DO ENTRY AND LANDING
    WITH THE HABS INFLATED. THEY WOULD BE DEFLATED,
    STUFFED BACK INSIDE, AND THEN INFLATED AGAIN
    ONCE THEY’RE ON THE SURFACE. AND THIS LOOKS VERY VULNERABLE TO BEING BLOWN OVER BY THE WIND
    OR SOMETHING, BUT, IN FACT, THE DYNAMIC
    PRESSURE OF WINDS ON THE SURFACE OF MARS
    IS QUITE LOW. AND THESE THINGS HERE,
    BY THE WAY, THE NOTION OF THIS ONE WAS THAT IT WOULDN’T TRANSPORT
    HYDROGEN TO MARS. IT WOULD TRANSPORT
    HYDROCARBON FUEL AND JUST MAKE THE OXYGEN, WHICH IS 3/4 OF THE PROPELLANT, BECAUSE THE SMALLER SIZE MAKES
    IT HARDER TO TRANSPORT HYDROGEN. NOW, THIS MISSION… IS DESIGNED IN ACCORDANCE
    WITH, YOU KNOW, JUST THREE FALCON HEAVY LAUNCHES
    PER OPPORTUNITY. SLS, IN ITS EARLIEST
    INCARNATION, IS 75 TONS TO ORBIT. THAT WOULD INCREASE
    THE MASS MARGINS BY 50%. OR YOU COULD SAY, OKAY,
    WE’LL DO TWO FALCON HEAVIES FOR EACH OF THESE
    THREE PACKAGES, MATE AND DOCK,
    AND THAT WOULD DOUBLE IT. WHAT I AM SAYING HERE IS NOT TO ADVOCATE
    THIS DESIGN IN DETAIL, BUT TO SAY,
    IF YOU WANT TO GET TO MARS, YOU WANT TO TRY TO APPROACH IT IN A SPIRIT
    OF RUTHLESS MINIMALISM, TO SAY, “HOW COULD WE ACTUALLY
    DO THIS WITH WHAT WE HAVE OR WHAT WE’RE LIKELY TO HAVE?” AS OPPOSED TO SAYING, “WELL, YOU KNOW,
    WHEN I GO TO MARS, “I WANT TO HAVE THIS
    NAUTILUS SPACESHIP “WITH A, YOU KNOW, SPA
    AND A SAUNA AND THIS AND THAT, “AND A POOL ROOM, BECAUSE
    REALLY, WITHOUT A POOL ROOM, ASTRONAUTS WON’T BE HAPPY.” YOU WANT TO SAY, “HOW CAN WE
    ACTUALLY GET THIS DONE “WITH THE SORT OF THING WE HAVE AND DESIGN THE MISSION
    IN THAT WAY?” BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS, WHETHER WE DO IT WITH
    A TRUE HEAVY-LIFT BOOSTER LIKE “MARS DIRECT” IS, OR WE DO IT IN THIS SORT OF–
    THIS FALCON DIRECT ARCHITECTURE WITH A SEMI-HEAVY BOOSTER, THERE’S WAYS TO DO THIS. WE DO NOT NEED
    SCIENCE-FICTION SPACESHIPS TO GO TO MARS, OKAY? WE JUST DON’T. SO, OKAY. I’LL LEAVE IT THERE. THANKS. [applause] – SO WE HAVE TIME FOR QUESTIONS. WAIT FOR THE MICROPHONE, AND PLEASE STAND UP
    WHEN YOU ASK A QUESTION. – SO, NASA LEADERSHIP NOW
    SEEMS TO EMBRACE MARS AS THE PRIMARY DESTINATION. AND THEY CERTAINLY ARE AWARE
    OF YOUR PLAN. SO, WHAT IS THEIR RESPONSE? WHY WOULD NOT THEY GET
    INTERESTED IN THIS PLAN AND TRYING TO ADOPT IT? BECAUSE IT’S SO MUCH CHEAPER,
    IT SEEMS TO ME. NOT ONLY FASTER, BUT CHEAPER. – OKAY, WELL, I UNDERSTAND WHY
    YOU JUST SAID WHAT YOU SAID, BUT I DISAGREE WITH YOUR PREMISE THAT NASA HAS EMBRACED MARS
    AS A DESTINATION. IF NASA HAD EMBRACED MARS
    AS A DESTINATION, IT WOULDN’T BE PLANNING
    AN ASTEROID-REDIRECT MISSION, BECAUSE THE ASTEROID-REDIRECT
    MISSION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HUMANS TO MARS. OKAY, THE–THEY’VE CHOSEN
    TO INVOKE HUMANS TO MARS AS SIZZLE BUT NOT THE STEAK,
    OKAY? IN OTHER WORDS– AND THIS IS FUNDAMENTAL. YOU CAN’T GET TO MARS
    WITH A PROGRAM THAT IS DESIGNED AROUND PLEASING
    VARIOUS CONSTITUENCIES WITHIN THE ORGANIZATION. FOR INSTANCE,
    THE ASTEROID-REDIRECT MISSION, THE PURPOSE OF IT
    IS TO PROVIDE A MISSION FOR AN ELECTRIC PROPULSION
    SYSTEM WHICH HAPPENS TO HAVE THE EAR
    OF THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATOR. OKAY, IT IS– NO ONE IN THEIR WILDEST DREAMS EVER PUT REDIRECTING
    A 500-TON BOULDER FROM THE NEAR-EARTH
    ASTEROID BELT INTO A RETROGRADE LUNAR ORBIT ON THE CRITICAL PATH TO MARS. OKAY, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THIS IS NEW. AND THE–NOW, SOME PEOPLE
    HAVE ARGUED THAT A LUNAR BASE IS ON THE CRITICAL PATH
    TO MARS, AND I DISAGREE, BUT AT LEAST THEIR ARGUMENT
    HAS THE MERIT THAT A LUNAR BASE
    IS ON THE CRITICAL PATH TO HAVING A LUNAR BASE. AND SO, IF YOU BUILD
    A LUNAR BASE, YOU WILL AT LEAST
    GET A LUNAR BASE. OKAY, SO, YOU CAN BE SANE
    AND ARGUE THAT. BUT THE– BECAUSE, IN FACT,
    THE PEOPLE WHO ARGUE THAT WE NEED TO BUILD THE LUNAR
    BASE BEFORE WE GO TO MARS ARE PEOPLE WHO WANT
    TO HAVE A LUNAR BASE. NOW, THE– THE PROBLEM HERE IS,
    IT’S ENTROPY. IT’S ENTROPY. THIS IS WHAT THE PROBLEM WAS WITH THE 90-DAY REPORT,
    FUNDAMENTALLY, WAS ENTROPY. IT’S LIKE RUNNING A COMPANY AND HAVING YOUR DECISIONS
    DETERMINED BY YOUR VENDORS. “WHY DON’T YOU BUILD THIS
    SO WE CAN SELL IT TO YOU?” OKAY. THE RIGHT WAY TO DO– IF YOU WANT TO GET TO MARS, YOU DECIDE–YOU DECIDE THAT, AND THEN YOU JUST FIND OUT WHAT IS THE SIMPLEST
    AND MOST DIRECT PLAN WITH THE LEAST
    DIVERSIONS FROM IT. AND GIVEN THE FACT
    THAT THE NASA BUDGET IS FINITE, IT MEANS NOT DOING A WHOLE BUNCH
    OF OTHER ACTIVITIES THAT ARE NOT RELATED
    TO THAT GOAL, OKAY? AND THAT’S WHAT WE NEED. YOU CANNOT– YOU KNOW, WE DIDN’T GET
    TO THE MOON BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, ONE DAY, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS
    THIS LEM PROGRAM AND A COMMAND MODULE PROGRAM AND A SATURN V PROGRAM, AND ONE DAY THE DIRECTORS
    RAN INTO EACH OTHER IN THE CAFETERIA AT MARSHALL
    AND SAID, “YOU KNOW, WITH YOUR LEM
    AND MY COMMAND MODULE AND HIS BOOSTER,
    WE COULD GO TO THE MOON.” NO, THESE THINGS– FIRST, THERE WAS THE DECISION
    TO GO TO THE MOON. THEN, THEY DEVELOPED A PLAN
    ON HOW TO DO IT. FROM THE PLAN CAME
    THE HARDWARE ELEMENTS. FROM THE HARDWARE ELEMENTS
    WERE DETERMINED THE LIST OF TECHNOLOGIES THAT NEEDED
    TO BE DEVELOPED. AND THAT’S HOW YOU DID IT. IT WASN’T THAT THERE WERE
    ALL THESE TECHNOLOGIES BEING DEVELOPED AND SUDDENLY
    THEY CAME TOGETHER AND MADE THE MOON HAPPEN. SO THAT’S IT. THERE HAS NOT BEEN
    A DECISION TO GO TO MARS. – I WONDER WHAT
    YOUR THOUGHTS ARE ON THE RECENT NATIONAL RESEARCH
    COUNCIL REPORT THAT CAME OUT
    A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO. – OH, OKAY. THAT’S GOOD. WELL, ACTUALLY, I HAVE– I GIVE IT MIXED REVIEWS. THE POSITIVE PART IS, THEY MADE
    THE POINT THAT I JUST MADE, OKAY, WHICH IS THAT
    YOU CANNOT HAVE A “TECHNOLOGY-DRIVEN PROGRAM” BECAUSE THAT, IN FACT, IS
    A CONSTITUENCY-DRIVEN PROGRAM, AND IT’S JUST ENTROPY,
    AND YOU WILL NOT GET TO MARS OR ANYWHERE ELSE THAT WAY. NOW, THE PEOPLE
    WHO WROTE THAT REPORT, IN FACT, WERE LUNAR ADVOCATES, AND IF YOU READ THAT REPORT AND CAN KIND OF
    GET PAST THE FOG, WHAT IT BASICALLY SAYS IS, THE UNITED STATES
    SHOULD BUILD A LUNAR BASE. OKAY, THAT’S WHAT IT SAYS. OKAY, IT NEVER SAYS IT THAT WAY. INSTEAD, WHAT THEY SAY IS, “THE UNITED STATES NEEDS “A DEFINITE AND INSPIRATIONAL
    GOAL FOR ITS SPACE PROGRAM, AND THAT SHOULD BE
    HUMANS TO MARS.” OKAY. THEN, THEY SAY, “NOW, THERE’S
    THREE WAYS TO GET TO MARS. “ONE IS, YOU COULD DO
    THE ASTEROID-REDIRECT MISSION “AND THEN DO MISSIONS TO PHOBOS, “AND THEN DO MISSIONS
    TO MARS. “OR YOU COULD BUILD
    A SPACE STATION IN L2, “THEN BUILD A LUNAR BASE, “THEN DO MISSIONS
    TO THE NEAR-EARTH ASTEROIDS, “THEN DO MISSIONS TO PHOBOS, “AND THEN DO MISSIONS TO MARS. “OR YOU COULD BUILD
    A LUNAR BASE “AND THEN DO MISSIONS TO MARS. “OKAY, NOW, THE FIRST
    TWO CHOICES ARE ABSURD, SO CHOOSE ONE
    OF THE ALTERNATIVES.” OKAY, AND THAT’S BASICALLY
    WHAT THE REPORT SAYS. NOW, THE REPORT SAYS– IT IDENTIFIES CORRECTLY THAT ONCE AN OBJECTIVE
    IS CHOSEN, IT NEEDS TO BE STUCK TO, OKAY, THAT THE CHURN THAT WAS
    INTRODUCED INTO THE PROGRAM, FOR EXAMPLE,
    BY OBAMA CANCELLING THE BUSH-GRIFFIN
    MOON BASE PROGRAM, AND THEN GOING OFF
    IN ANOTHER DIRECTION, WAS NOT HELPFUL, OKAY. AND THEN THERE’S FURTHER CHURN, IN THAT NASA ACTUALLY ABANDONED
    OBAMA’S PLAN TO SEND PEOPLE
    TO NEAR-EARTH ASTEROIDS BECAUSE THAT WOULD GET US
    INTO HELIOCENTRIC SPACE. SAYS, “NO, WE DON’T WANT TO GO
    INTO HELIOCENTRIC SPACE, SO WE’LL JUST RETURN
    A CHUNK OF AN ASTEROID.” YOU KNOW, THIS KIND OF THING. THEY– AND IN MANY PLACES,
    THEY MADE IT VERY CLEAR: “LOOK, YOU KNOW,
    A MOON BASE IS DOABLE. “WE’RE FOR IT. “THAT’S WHAT WE SHOULD DO. LET’S JUST STICK WITH IT
    AND DO IT.” NOW, THEY MADE
    IMPLICIT ASSUMPTIONS HERE, AS YOU CAN SEE,
    THAT HUMANS TO MARS– IF YOU WANT TO SEND
    HUMANS TO MARS, AN ALTERNATIVE IS
    TO SEND HUMANS TO MARS, OKAY. THAT WOULD BE ONE ALTERNATIVE
    WAY OF DOING THAT. AND THE–NOW, THEY DON’T
    ADMIT THAT. THEY DON’T EVEN INCLUDE IT
    WITHIN THEIR TRADE SPACE, BECAUSE THEY WANT TO DO
    A LUNAR BASE, AND SO WHAT THEY WANT TO DO– THEY COME UP WITH TECHNOLOGY
    CHALLENGES THAT MUST BE MASTERED BEFORE WE CAN START
    A HUMANS TO MARS PROGRAM. OKAY, AND THEY NAME
    THREE PRIMARY CHALLENGES. ONE IS ENTRY, DESCENT,
    AND LANDING OF LARGE PAYLOADS ON MARS. THE SECOND IS ADVANCED
    PROPULSION AND POWER. AND THE THIRD IS
    RADIATION SAFETY. NOW, EDL OF LARGE PAYLOADS
    ON MARS IS NOT A FUNDAMENTAL TECHNOLOGY. IT IS AN ENGINEERING
    DEVELOPMENT, OKAY, AND IT WILL BE DONE. I MEAN, IT’S HARD WORK.
    WORK WILL HAVE TO BE DONE. BUT IT CAN BE DONE,
    AND IT WOULD ONLY BE DONE IN THE CONTEXT
    OF A HUMANS TO MARS PROGRAM. OKAY, SURFACE POWER, SAME THING. ADVANCED PROPULSION? IT IS NOT DEMONSTRATED
    THAT ADVANCED PROPULSION IS NEEDED TO SEND
    HUMANS TO MARS. AND, IN FACT, ONE OF THE GOOD
    THINGS THE AUTHORS DO IS, THEY DISMISS OUT OF HAND THESE CLAIMS OF
    FRANKLIN CHANG DIAZ THAT ELECTRIC PROPULSION
    PROVIDES A WAY TO DO QUICK TRIPS TO MARS. OKAY. THEY DO THAT. BUT, NEVERTHELESS, THEY JUST
    KIND OF LEAVE THAT IN THERE, THAT SOMEHOW WE NEED
    TO GET TO MARS FASTER. OKAY, THEN THE THIRD THING IS
    RADIATION PROTECTION. AND THIS ONE, OKAY, WE HAVE HAD 70 YEARS
    SINCE THE MANHATTAN PROJECT OF SERIOUS WORK
    ON RADIATION PROTECTION, RADIATION HEALTH EFFECTS, WITH LOTS OF MONEY BEHIND IT. OKAY, 20 MORE YEARS
    OF SUCH RESEARCH IS NOT GOING TO ADD
    ANYTHING TO THAT, OKAY? FURTHERMORE,
    AS I POINTED OUT HERE, THE RADIATION DOSE
    OF COSMIC RAYS THAT NASA IS EXPERIENCING
    IN THE COURSE OF RUNNING ITS SPACE STATION PROGRAM IS EQUIVALENT TO THAT IT WOULD
    BE DOING DOING AN ACTIVE PROGRAM
    OF HUMAN MARS EXPLORATION. SO THE IDEA THAT WE SHOULD
    DO 20 YEARS OF RADIATION HEALTH
    EFFECTS RESEARCH BEFORE WE GO TO MARS
    IS VACUOUS. AND, ONCE AGAIN,
    IT’S A SNOW DAY. IT’S ARGUED
    WITH ALL THE SINCERITY OF A 10-YEAR-OLD SAYING THAT THE 3 INCHES OF SNOW
    THAT FELL LAST NIGHT MEANS THAT CHILDREN SHOULD NOT
    HAVE TO GO TO SCHOOL TODAY BECAUSE IT’S TOO DANGEROUS. YOU KNOW, THAT’S WHAT IT IS. AND SO THEY DO THAT. AND THEN FINALLY, THEY MAKE
    THE IMPORTANT POINT THAT I MADE
    A LITTLE BIT EARLIER WHERE IF YOU DO
    SET AN OBJECTIVE, IT MEANS THAT YOU SHOULD NOT BE DOING A WHOLE BUNCH
    OF OTHER THINGS, ESPECIALLY MAJOR PROGRAMS, THAT ARE NOT RELATED
    TO THE OBJECTIVE. OKAY. NOW, THESE PEOPLE
    WANT TO DO A LUNAR BASE. LET’S STIPULATE THAT’S
    WHAT YOU WANT TO DO. SO, WHERE’S THE SPACE STATION
    FIT IN WITH THAT? OKAY, THEY DO NOT CALL FOR
    TERMINATING THE SPACE STATION AT AN EARLY DATE. IN FACT, THEY DISCUSS
    PROLONGING IT UNTIL 2028. HOW IS THE SPACE STATION ON THE CRITICAL PATH TOWARDS
    SENDING HUMANS TO THE MOON AND OPERATING A MOON BASE? NOT AT ALL, OKAY? SO THEY’RE LEFT WITH SAYING THAT WE CANNOT DO
    ANY OF THESE THINGS WITHIN NASA’S CURRENT BUDGET. AND ONLY IF WE HAVE
    LARGE INCREASES IN NASA’S BUDGET WILL ANYTHING BE POSSIBLE. WELL, LET ME TELL YOU,
    YOU’VE GOT $17 BILLION A YEAR. THERE ARE A LOT
    OF THINGS POSSIBLE WITH $17 BILLION A YEAR. BUT YOU’VE GOT
    TO MAKE DECISIONS. AND THEY DIDN’T HAVE
    THE COURAGE OF THEIR CONVICTIONS TO SAY, “LOOK, THE PROPER ROLE
    OF ASTRONAUTS “IS TO BE EXPLORERS, OKAY,
    OF OTHER WORLDS. SOME MAY PREFER MARS.
    WE PREFER THE MOON.” BUT THAT’S WHAT ASTRONAUTS
    ARE FOR. THE REASON FOR GOING INTO SPACE
    IS TO GO ACROSS SPACE AND EXPLORE AND DEVELOP
    THE WORLDS ON THE OTHER SIDES OF SPACE, AS OPPOSED TO PUTTING PEOPLE
    IN SPACE TO OBSERVE THE NEGATIVE
    HEALTH EFFECTS OF ZERO GRAVITY ON PEOPLE, WHICH IS REDUCING ASTRONAUTS
    TO THE ROLE OF GUINEA PIGS INSTEAD OF EXPLORERS. IT’S DEGRADING. YOU KNOW, IT’S AS IF
    HENRY THE NAVIGATOR, YOU KNOW, WHEN HE LAUNCHED
    HIS PROGRAM OF EUROPEAN OCEANIC EXPLORATION, INSTEAD OF TELLING PEOPLE TO GO FURTHER AND FURTHER
    DOWN THE COAST OF AFRICA TO FIND A WAY TO THE INDIES, SAID, “NO, I WANT YOU
    TO GO OFFSHORE, “PARK YOUR SHIP
    100 MILES OUT AT SEA, “AND, YOU KNOW,
    TAKE OBSERVATIONS OF HOW LONG IT TAKES
    YOUR SAILORS TO DIE OF SCURVY.” [laughter] THE–OKAY. YOU KNOW, SO THEY REALLY– AND WHILE THEY CLEARLY– THEY WERE DOWN ON THE
    ASTEROID-REDIRECT MISSION, AND THAT’S VERY GOOD. THEY POINTED OUT
    THAT IT INVOLVED A WHOLE BUNCH OF
    TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENTS THAT WERE DEAD-END, THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO
    WITH SENDING HUMANS TO MARS. NEVERTHELESS, THEY DIDN’T… FRONTALLY ASSAULT IT. THEY DIDN’T STICK THE KNIFE IN
    ALL THE WAY. THEY DIDN’T PUNCH
    FOR THE BACK OF THE THROAT. THEY PUNCHED FOR THE FRONT
    OF THE CHEST. AND BY LEAVING IT THERE
    AS ONE OF THREE ALTERNATIVES, ACTUALLY ALLOWED
    NASA HEADQUARTERS TO SAY, “WELL, WE AGREE
    WITH THE REPORT. THE ASTEROID-REDIRECT MISSION
    IS ONE OF THREE PATHS.” WHEREAS, IF YOU READ THE REPORT AND LOOKED THROUGH
    THEIR TRADE STUDIES, THEY SHOW THAT, YOU KNOW, IT INVOLVES TEN USELESS ELEMENTS
    INSTEAD OF THE OTHER ONE, WHICH INVOLVES ONLY ONE,
    AND WHATEVER. AND THE–AND THEN, WHILE THE TWO PATHS
    THAT THEY DID NOT SUPPORT INVOLVED GOING TO PHOBOS, THEY DID NOT DO AN ADEQUATE JOB
    OF EXPLAINING WHY PHOBOS IS NOT A PATH
    ON THE WAY TO MARS. SO I’LL CORRECT
    THAT OMISSION HERE. BECAUSE JUST LAST WEEK,
    SOME GUY AT HEADQUARTERS SAID, “WELL, THE ASTEROID-REDIRECT
    MISSION IS A WAY TO GO TO MARS, “BECAUSE WE’LL LEARN HOW TO DO
    THE KIND OF ISRU THERE “THAT WE WILL DO
    NOT ON MARS, BUT ON PHOBOS, WHICH IS THE KEY POSITION
    TO MARS,” SO THAT THEY’RE USING PHOBOS TO JUSTIFY
    THE ASTEROID-REDIRECT MISSION, WHICH IN TURN WAS CREATED
    TO JUSTIFY THE DEVELOPMENT OF HIGH-ENERGY
    ELECTRIC PROPULSION. BUT, IN FACT, IT’S NOT. LET ME TELL YOU WHY, OKAY, BECAUSE AT FIRST GLANCE, IT MAY SEEM TO SOMEONE THAT
    BASING ON PHOBOS MAKES SENSE, BUT IT DOESN’T,
    BECAUSE HERE’S WHY. PHOBOS IS IN A CIRCULAR,
    EQUATORIAL ORBIT AROUND MARS, CIRCULAR AND EQUATORIAL. EQUATORIAL MEANS IT ONLY HAS
    READY ACCESS TO THE EQUATOR OF MARS, AND THEREFORE IT RESTRICTS
    YOUR OPERATION. BUT EVEN WORSE THAN THAT
    IS THE CIRCULAR. OKAY, IN ORDER TO GET
    INTO THAT CIRCULAR ORBIT, ASSUMING AEROBRAKING AT MARS, AND THEN YOU HAVE TO RAISE
    THE PERIGEE IN ORDER TO– LET’S SAY YOU CAN
    AEROBRAKE AT MARS AND THE APOGEE IS DOWN
    AT PHOBOS’ ORBIT, BUT NOW YOU HAVE
    TO RAISE THE PERIGEE UP TO PHOBOS’ ORBIT, OKAY. THAT’S 1.1 KILOMETER A SECOND
    DELTA V. THEN, TO GET OUT OF THAT IN ORDER TO GET BACK DOWN
    INTO THE ATMOSPHERE, TO AEROBRAKE AND GET
    TO THE SURFACE, IS ANOTHER
    KILOMETER A SECOND DELTA V. SO NOW YOU’VE ADDED
    2 KILOMETERS A SECOND DELTA V TO THE MISSION
    ON THE WAY DOWN. AND THEN IT’S A LITTLE BIT
    MORE COMPLICATED, BUT I’LL TELL YOU
    WHAT THE ANSWER IS: 2.2. AND ON THE WAY BACK UP, GOING UP FROM PHOBOS INSTEAD OF JUST GOING UP
    TO A HIGHLY ELLIPTICAL ORBIT AND THEN INJECTING FOR EARTH, YOU ADD ANOTHER 1.6. SO THAT ADDS 3.8 KILOMETERS
    A SECOND DELTA V TO THE MISSION, WHICH IS CATASTROPHIC, OKAY? I MEAN, THAT’S HUGE.
    IT’S A DISASTER. SO BASING ON PHOBOS
    IS NOT A GOOD IDEA. BUT HERE’S THE THING. IF WE GO THIS ROUTE WHERE PEOPLE JUSTIFY MISSIONS OR COME UP WITH MISSIONS
    IN ORDER TO PROVIDE RATIONALES FOR PREVIOUS DECISIONS, OKAY, THEN WE GO TO PHOBOS IN ORDER TO JUSTIFY THE A.R.M., WE GO DO THE A.R.M. IN ORDER
    TO JUSTIFY A MAJOR ELECTRIC PROPULSION DEVELOPMENT,
    OKAY, BUT YOU’RE DEVELOPING
    AN ENTIRE THING HERE WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO
    WITH MARS. AND NOW, IF SOMEBODY COMES ALONG
    AND DESIGNS A MARS MISSION WITHOUT GOING THROUGH
    YOUR PHOBOS TOLL BOOTH, THEY ARE DE-JUSTIFYING
    YOUR PROGRAM. IN FACT, THIS WAS A MAJOR
    PROBLEM WITH THE 90-DAY REPORT. THEY INSISTED
    THAT LUNAR MISSIONS MADE CRITICAL USE OF THE
    INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION, BECAUSE IF THEY WEREN’T, THEY WERE DE-JUSTIFYING
    THE SPACE STATION PROGRAM, BECAUSE THE ARGUMENT WAS,
    THE SPACE STATION WAS CRITICAL PATH ON THE WAY
    TO THE MOON. SO, IN ORDER TO DO
    A MOON MISSION IN THE 90-DAY REPORT, YOU HAD TO HAVE
    THREE SHUTTLE-C LAUNCHES TO THE SPACE STATION WHERE THEY WOULD BE ASSEMBLED
    INTO A LUNAR CRAFT IN DOUBLE HANGARS THAT HAD TO BE
    BUILT ONTO THE SPACE STATION, AND THEN A SHUTTLE LAUNCH
    AS WELL, AND THEN IT WOULD FLY
    TO THE MOON, AND IT WOULD HAVE TO FLY BACK, AND IT WOULD BE REUSED
    IN RL-10 ENGINES WHICH COST $2 MILLION EACH, WOULD BE REFITTED AT A COST
    OF ABOUT $2 BILLION EACH AT THE STATION, AND SO FORTH. AND IT WAS SO COMPLICATED THAT IT WAS BEYOND 1990s
    OR TODAY’S TECHNOLOGY, AND PEOPLE SAID,
    LOOKING AT THIS MESS, “IF WE COULD PUT
    A MAN ON THE MOON, WHY CAN’T WE PUT
    A MAN ON THE MOON?” OKAY, AND THE REASON WHY THEY
    COULDN’T PUT A MAN ON THE MOON IN THE 1990s
    BUT THEY COULD IN THE 1960s WAS BECAUSE IN THE 1990s
    SOMEONE WAS TELLING THEM, “YOU HAD TO GO
    TO THE MOON THE HARD WAY, “OR YOU’RE SHOWING THAT THE
    DECISIONS WE MADE WERE WRONG, AND WE CAN’T HAVE THAT.” WELL, WHO’S CALLING
    ON THE QUESTIONS? – SO, WHEN YOU ORIGINALLY
    STARTED TALKING, YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU WERE
    GOING TO ADDRESS THE “WHY YOU’RE GOING TO MARS,” BUT YOU NEVER ACTUALLY MENTIONED ANYTHING ABOUT THAT
    IN YOUR TALK. – ALL RIGHT. – COULD YOU GO OVER THAT? – SURE. OKAY, AS I SEE IT,
    THERE’S THREE REASONS WHY MARS SHOULD BE THE GOAL
    OF OUR SPACE PROGRAM. AND IN SHORT, IT’S BECAUSE MARS
    IS WHERE THE SCIENCE IS, IT’S WHERE THE CHALLENGE IS, AND IT’S WHERE THE FUTURE IS. IT’S WHERE THE SCIENCE IS
    BECAUSE MARS, OKAY, WAS ONCE A WARM AND WET PLANET. IT HAD LIQUID WATER
    ON ITS SURFACE FOR MORE THAN A BILLION YEARS, WHICH IS ABOUT
    FIVE TIMES AS LONG AS IT TOOK LIFE TO APPEAR
    ON EARTH AFTER THERE WAS
    LIQUID WATER HERE. SO IF THE THEORY IS CORRECT THAT LIFE IS A NATURAL
    DEVELOPMENT FROM CHEMISTRY OR IF YOU HAVE LIQUID WATER, VARIOUS ELEMENTS,
    AND SUFFICIENT TIME, LIFE SHOULD HAVE APPEARED
    ON MARS, EVEN IF IT SUBSEQUENTLY
    WENT EXTINCT, AND IF WE CAN GO TO MARS
    AND FIND FOSSILS OF PAST LIFE, WE’LL HAVE PROVEN THAT
    DEVELOPMENT OF LIFE IS A GENERAL PHENOMENON
    IN THE UNIVERSE. OKAY, OR, ALTERNATIVELY, IF WE GO TO MARS AND FIND
    PLENTY OF EVIDENCE OF PAST BODIES OF WATER BUT NO EVIDENCE OF FOSSILS
    OR DEVELOPMENT OF LIFE, THAT COULD SAY
    THAT THE DEVELOPMENT OF LIFE FROM CHEMISTRY IS NOT
    SORT OF A NATURAL PROCESS THAT OCCURS WITH
    HIGH PROBABILITY, BUT INCLUDES
    ELEMENTS OF FREAK CHANCE, AND WE COULD BE ALONE
    IN THE UNIVERSE. FURTHERMORE, IF WE CAN GO
    TO MARS AND DRILL, BECAUSE THERE’S LIQUID WATER
    UNDERGROUND ON MARS, REACH THE GROUNDWATER, THERE COULD BE LIFE THERE NOW. AND IF WE CAN GET HOLD OF THAT
    AND LOOK AT IT AND EXAMINE ITS BIOLOGICAL
    STRUCTURE AND BIOCHEMISTRY, WE COULD FIND OUT IF LIFE
    AS IT EXISTS ON MARS IS THE SAME AS EARTH LIFE, BECAUSE ALL EARTH LIFE,
    AT THE BIOCHEMICAL LEVEL, IS THE SAME. WE ALL USE THE SAME
    AMINO ACIDS, THE SAME METHOD
    OF REPLICATING AND TRANSMITTING INFORMATION,
    RNA AND DNA, ALL THAT. IS THAT WHAT LIFE HAS TO BE, OR COULD LIFE BE
    VERY DIFFERENT FROM THAT? ARE WE WHAT LIFE IS, OR ARE WE JUST ONE EXAMPLE DRAWN FROM A MUCH VASTER
    TAPESTRY OF POSSIBILITIES? THIS IS REAL SCIENCE. THIS IS FUNDAMENTAL QUESTIONS
    THAT THINKING MEN AND WOMEN HAVE WONDERED ABOUT
    FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS: THE ROLE OF LIFE
    IN THE UNIVERSE. THIS IS VERY DIFFERENT
    FROM GOING TO THE MOON AND DATING CRATERS IN ORDER TO PRODUCE ENOUGH DATA
    TO GET A CREDIBLE PAPER TO PUBLISH IN THE JOURNAL
    OF GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH AND GET TENURE, OKAY? [laughter] OKAY. THIS IS, YOU KNOW,
    HYPOTHESIS-DRIVEN, CRITICAL SCIENCE. THIS IS THE REAL THING. SECOND: THE CHALLENGE. OKAY, YOU KNOW… I THINK SOCIETIES
    ARE LIKE INDIVIDUALS. WE GROW WHEN
    WE CHALLENGE OURSELVES. WE STAGNATE WHEN WE DO NOT. A HUMANS TO MARS PROGRAM WOULD BE A TREMENDOUSLY BRACING
    CHALLENGE FOR OUR SOCIETY. IT WOULD BE TREMENDOUSLY
    PRODUCTIVE, PARTICULARLY AMONG YOUTH. OKAY, HUMANS TO MARS PROGRAM WOULD SAY TO EVERY KID
    IN SCHOOL TODAY, “LEARN YOUR SCIENCE, AND YOU COULD BE AN EXPLORER
    OF A NEW WORLD.” WE’D GET MILLIONS OF SCIENTISTS,
    ENGINEERS, INVENTORS, TECHNOLOGICAL ENTREPRENEURS,
    DOCTORS, MEDICAL RESEARCHERS OUT OF THAT. AND THE INTELLECTUAL CAPITAL
    FROM THAT WOULD ENORMOUSLY BENEFIT US. IT WOULD DWARF
    THE COST OF THE PROGRAM. AND THEN, FINALLY,
    IT’S THE FUTURE. MARS IS THE CLOSEST PLANET THAT HAS ON IT
    ALL THE RESOURCES NEEDED TO SUPPORT LIFE AND,
    THEREFORE, CIVILIZATION. IF WE DO WHAT WE CAN DO
    IN OUR TIME, IF WE ESTABLISH THAT LITTLE
    PLYMOUTH ROCK SETTLEMENT ON MARS,
    THEN, 500 YEARS FROM NOW, THERE’LL BE NEW BRANCHES
    OF HUMAN CIVILIZATION ON MARS AND, I BELIEVE, THROUGHOUT
    NEARBY INTERSTELLAR SPACE. BUT, YOU KNOW, LOOK, I ASK ANY AMERICAN, “WHAT HAPPENED IN 1492?” THEY’LL TELL ME, “WELL, COLUMBUS
    SAILED IN 1492,” AND THAT IS CORRECT. HE DID. BUT THAT’S NOT THE ONLY THING
    THAT HAPPENED IN 1492. IN 1492, ENGLAND AND FRANCE
    SIGNED A PEACE TREATY. IN 1492, THE BORGIAS
    TOOK OVER THE PAPACY. IN 1492, LORENZO DE’MEDICI, THE RICHEST MAN IN THE WORLD,
    DIED, OKAY. A LOT OF THINGS HAPPENED. IF THERE HAD BEEN NEWSPAPERS
    IN 1492, WHICH THERE WEREN’T, BUT IF THERE HAD, THOSE WOULD
    HAVE BEEN THE HEADLINES, NOT THIS ITALIAN WEAVER’S SON
    TAKING A BUNCH OF SHIPS AND SAILING OFF TO NOWHERE,
    OKAY. [laughter] BUT COLUMBUS
    IS WHAT WE REMEMBER, NOT THE BORGIAS
    TAKING OVER THE PAPACY. OKAY, WELL, 500 YEARS FROM NOW, PEOPLE ARE NOT
    GOING TO REMEMBER WHICH FACTION CAME OUT
    ON TOP IN IRAQ, OR SYRIA, OR WHATEVER, AND WHO WAS IN
    AND WHO WAS OUT. AND, YOU KNOW– BUT THEY WILL REMEMBER WHAT WE DO TO MAKE
    THEIR CIVILIZATION POSSIBLE. OKAY? SO THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT
    THING WE COULD DO, MOST IMPORTANT THING
    WE COULD DO IN THIS TIME. AND IF YOU HAVE IT
    IN YOUR POWER TO DO SOMETHING GREAT
    AND IMPORTANT AND WONDERFUL, THEN YOU SHOULD. – HI, DR. ZUBRIN.
    THANKS FOR COMING. I WAS JUST CURIOUS IF YOU
    CAN CLARIFY THE STATEMENT ABOUT THE SIX-MONTH
    FREE RETURN TRAJECTORY, BECAUSE ANYTHING LAUNCHING
    BESIDES, YOU KNOW, USING CHEMICAL PROPULSION, IS GOING TO BE THRUSTING
    IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE LAUNCH, SO THERE WOULD BE
    NO FREE RETURN AFTERWARDS. IT WOULD ONLY BE APPLICABLE
    TO A CHEMICAL TRANSFER. SO I REALLY HOPE YOU CAN
    CLARIFY THOSE STATEMENTS. – IT WOULD BE– IT ANSWERS FOR ANY
    IMPULSIVE TRANSFER, OKAY? ELECTRIC PROPULSION HAS
    NO FREE RETURN TRAJECTORY, AT ALL, EVER. BUT IMPULSIVE TRAJECTORIES CAN HAVE
    FREE RETURN TRAJECTORIES, AND THAT WOULD BE
    EITHER CHEMICAL OR NUCLEAR THERMAL ROCKETS. AND, TO BE FRANK, IF YOU’RE TALKING ADVANCED
    PROPULSION FOR MARS, THE MOST CREDIBLE ALTERNATIVE
    TO CHEMICAL IS NUCLEAR THERMAL ROCKETS.
    IT IS. NOT HIGH-ENERGY
    ELECTRIC PROPULSION, WHICH IS UTTERLY FANTASTICAL. I MEAN, WE’VE HAD THIS THING
    BEING PROMOTED HERE WITH FRANKLIN CHANG DIAZ
    CLAIMING THAT HE CAN GET YOU TO MARS
    IN 39 DAYS IF ALL HE HAS IS A 200,000
    KILOWATT POWER SYSTEM, OKAY, WHICH IS TO SAY A POWER SYSTEM
    20,000 TIMES THE SIZE OF ANY NUCLEAR POWER SYSTEM
    EVER FLOWN IN SPACE, AND IT HAS A POWER-TO-MASS
    RATIO, PER-UNIT POWER, 100 TIMES WHAT HAS
    EVER BEEN DONE. OKAY, THE–
    YOU KNOW, SO IT’S NONSENSE. IT’S LIKE TALKING ABOUT
    BUILDING, YOU KNOW, FLYING, STEEL DIRIGIBLES BECAUSE STEEL
    DOESN’T WEIGH ANYTHING, YOU KNOW, FOR THE BALLOON PART. AND, THE– SO NUCLEAR THERMAL ROCKETS
    OR CHEMICAL ROCKETS ARE BOTH REALISTIC
    POSSIBLE PROPULSION SYSTEMS FOR HUMANS TO MARS. NTR IS BETTER IN THE SENSE
    THAT, FOR THE SAME LAUNCH MASS, YOU COULD DOUBLE THE PAYLOAD. CHEMICAL IS BETTER IN THE SENSE
    THAT WE HAVE IT NOW. NOW, SO I THINK WE CAN START
    THE HUMANS TO MARS PROGRAM WITH CHEMICAL PROPULSION
    AND WORK ON NTR AND INTRODUCE IT
    INTO THE TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM WHEN IT BECOMES AVAILABLE. BUT, IN EITHER CASE, YOU TAKE THE SIX-MONTH
    TRAJECTORY, WHICH IS LEAVING EARTH
    WITH A C-3 ABOUT 25, AND– IF YOU UNDERSTAND
    WHAT THAT MEANS– BUT–AND THEN THAT
    TAKES YOU OUT ON AN ELLIPTICAL TRAJECTORY WHICH INTERSECTS MARS
    IN SIX MONTHS, AND IT DOESN’T COST
    THAT MUCH EXTRA DELTA V COMPARED TO THE MINIMUM-ENERGY
    8 1/2 MONTH TRAJECTORY. THE 8 1/2 MONTH TRAJECTORY
    IS A DELTA V LEAVING LOW EARTH ORBIT OF
    AROUND 3.8 KILOMETERS A SECOND. THIS ONE’S ABOUT 4.2. SO IT’S A HIT THERE,
    BUT IT’S NOT THAT BAD. AND YOU–AND IF YOU DECIDE
    NOT TO STOP AT MARS, YOU JUST LOOP OUT
    TO ABOUT 2 A.U., AND YOU COME BACK, AND YOU HIT THE EARTH EXACTLY
    TWO YEARS AFTER YOU LEFT. – BOB, YOU’VE BEEN TALKING
    ABOUT THIS APPROACH FOR YEARS, AND I THINK THAT’S GREAT. IN THAT TIME,
    HAVE YOU SEE ANY CHANGE IN THE POLITICAL SUPPORT THAT WOULD BE NECESSARY
    TO INITIATE SUCH A MISSION? – WELL, THERE’S BEEN
    A NUMBER OF CHANGES THAT HAVE OCCURRED
    OVER THE YEARS. FIRST, OF COURSE, THERE WAS
    THE COLLAPSE OF THE SEI IN THE EARLY ’90s, AND THERE WAS A PERIOD
    IN WHICH WE DID NOT HAVE HUMAN EXPLORATION BEYOND LEO
    ON THE BOOKS AT ALL, DURING THE CLINTON
    ADMINISTRATION. THEN, BUSH IN 2004 SAID,
    “BACK TO THE MOON, ON TO MARS, AND BEYOND,” AND INITIATED THAT. AND IN CONJUNCTION WITH THAT, I HAD SOME INPUT
    INTO THAT PROCESS. MANY OTHER PEOPLE DID. AND SO IT WAS A COMPROMISE
    OF DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW. THE MOST FATAL PART OF THAT WAS, “BACK TO THE MOON,
    ON TO MARS, THIS TIME TO STAY, BUT BUSINESS AS USUAL
    UNTIL 2010.” THAT IS, “BEFORE WE DO
    ANY OF THAT, “WE’RE GONNA BUILD
    THE SPACE STATION AND SO FORTH, “AS OPPOSED TO REDIRECTING
    RESOURCES TO SERIOUSLY ATTEMPT THAT.” AND THUS, BY THE TIME
    ADMINISTRATIONS CHANGED IN 2009, NOT THAT MUCH
    HAD BEEN ACCOMPLISHED TOWARDS, WELL, THE MOON, AND SO THE PROGRAM
    WAS RELATIVELY EASY FOR OBAMA TO CANCEL. I THINK THAT
    IF THERE HAD BEEN– AND HE DIDN’T ACTUALLY CANCEL
    UNTIL 2010, BECAUSE IN 2009
    THEY WERE JUST INTERESTED IN STIMULATING EVERYTHING. BUT THE– IF THEY HAD REALLY
    HAD THE COURAGE OF THEIR CONVICTIONS IN 2004 WHEN THEY
    STARTED THAT PROGRAM, THEN BY 2010
    THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN SIX YEARS INTO
    THEIR RETURN TO THE MOON, OKAY. IT ONLY TOOK EIGHT YEARS
    THE FIRST TIME, OKAY. AND WE WOULD HAVE BEEN
    PRACTICALLY THERE, AND I THINK IT WOULD HAVE BEEN
    VERY DIFFICULT TO DEFEND CANCELLATION
    OF A PROGRAM WHEN IT WAS SO CLEAR TO–
    SO NEAR TO SUCCESS. AND THAT, BY THE WAY, IS WHY, IF YOU WANT TO DO
    HUMANS TO MARS, YOU CANNOT DO IT
    IN 30 YEARS OR 20 YEARS. YOU HAVE TO DO IT
    IN TEN YEARS OR LESS FROM PROGRAM START, OR YOU’RE MORE OR LESS
    GUARANTEEING THAT THE POLITICAL CONDITIONS THAT ALLOWED YOU
    TO INITIATE THE ACTION WILL NOT REMAIN IN PLACE. AND BY THE WAY,
    I HAD A MEETING WITH MIKE GRIFFIN
    IN HIS OFFICE SHORTLY AFTER HE WAS
    APPOINTED ADMINISTRATOR IN 2005, AND HE WASN’T IN THERE IN 2004. A YEAR HAD BEEN WASTED
    BY O’KEEFE DOING ROADMAPPING
    AND BLAH-BLAH. OKAY, THE– BUT GRIFFIN WAS IN THERE
    AND WAS GONNA DO SOMETHING. AND I SAID, “LOOK, YOU KNOW, “YOU’VE GOT EVERYTHING
    RIGHT NOW, OKAY. “YOU’VE GOT A PRESIDENT
    THAT SUPPORTS YOU. “THE REPUBLICANS HAD CONTROL
    OF BOTH HOUSES OF CONGRESS, “AND WE’VE GOT YOU
    AS NASA ADMINISTRATOR. “OKAY, BUT THESE FOUR
    POSITIVE CONDITIONS “ARE NOT GONNA REMAIN
    IN PLACE FOREVER, OKAY? “THEY ARE GUARANTEED
    TO DISAPPEAR “ON JANUARY 20TH, 2009,
    REGARDLESS OF ANYTHING, OKAY, SO YOU NEED
    TO GET ON WITH THIS.” AND THAT MEANT CERTAIN THINGS, AND A CERTAIN CHANGE
    OF DIRECTION NEEDED TO BE DONE. AND HIS ANSWER TO ME WAS, “YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND. “I AM NOT THE LEADER OF NASA.
    I AM THE ADMINISTRATOR OF NASA. AND THEREFORE,” HE SAID,
    “YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND THE CONSTRAINTS
    THAT I’M WORKING UNDER.” AND I UNDOUBTEDLY DIDN’T. BUT, NEVERTHELESS, THOSE CONSTRAINTS
    NEEDED TO BE BROKEN, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, YOU GET YOUR TIME ON THE STAGE,
    YOU BETTER SAY YOUR LINES, BECAUSE THEY’RE GONNA COME
    WITH THE HOOK SOONER OR LATER. NEXT? THEY’RE COMING
    WITH THE HOOK RIGHT NOW. [laughter] [applause] [musical tones]
    [electronic sounds of data]